did paul consider his letters as scripture?

[sincerly]

Paul is speaking about the hebrew scriptures here. Paul was a teacher of those hebrew scriptures in harmony with his spiritual understanding of them. So his own writings are a guide to understanding the hebrew scriputres and their fulfillment....when he says 'all scripture is inspired' he is speaking about the writings of the prophets and Moses.

But as he himself was also an inspired prophet, his writings constitute 'scripture' for christians.

Just to add comments to that which you have stated.
Jesus said that nothing came from HIM, but was from the Father.John 14:31, "But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence."

John 8:28, "Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am [he], and [that] I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things".

Paul in Gal.1:11-12, indicates the same idea with Jesus. "But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ."

And that both What Jesus and the Scriptures taught was the same Paul declared in Acts 24:14, "But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:"

 

[Awoon]

Who started the churches Paul wrote to? Was the previous church starter wrong?

Who took over for Paul terrorizing the churches after he quit?

 

[sincerly]

Who started the churches Paul wrote to? Was the previous church starter wrong?

Who took over for Paul terrorizing the churches after he quit?

Hi Awoon, "Church" is translated from the Greek and means "called out ones"/assembly of people.
Stephen in Acts7:38 that Moses was in the "Church in the wilderness". The Israelite gatherings together were Holy Convocations. Therefore, the "Church" was started by GOD and GOD was not wrong.
People, the Jewish Nation, had walked a rebellious/some-what obedient path from the very calling them into assemblage to Jesus Christ Came and Died in the Cross.
The leadership of the Jewish People had instituted some contrary to that GOD had given ---"traditions and commandments of men".

The Disciples were given the command by Jesus to go into all the world and correct those errors---first to the Jews and then to the Gentiles. Paul was a zealous believer in GOD, but initially, did persecute the believers in the truth which GOD/Jesus had taught(The everlasting Gospel).

Where there were Synagogues, those assembledges/congregations were already established. However, each person had to decide/choose the truth of the Scriptures or Sacred Writings for themself.(No different than today). Where there were no Believers, as persons acknowledged the truths which were set before them, they formed new "churches"(believing the same Everlasting Gospel).
Paul wrote epistles/letters back to those Believers who acknowledged that Jesus was the SON, of GOD the Father, and HIS mission was to secure the Salvation of the person by dying the Believers death penalty for that person. Those letters gave encouragement, hope, love, peace of mind, strength, etc. to those "churches".

The Jewish Pharisees were the ones who continued the persecuting of the followers of Jesus and the Truth as the scriptures outlined from Sinai. Paul was ashamed of his role as persecutor of GOD'S people.

 

[Awoon]

Hi Awoon, "Church" is translated from the Greek and means "called out ones"/assembly of people.
Stephen in Acts7:38 that Moses was in the "Church in the wilderness". The Israelite gatherings together were Holy Convocations. Therefore, the "Church" was started by GOD and GOD was not wrong.
People, the Jewish Nation, had walked a rebellious/some-what obedient path from the very calling them into assemblage to Jesus Christ Came and Died in the Cross.
The leadership of the Jewish People had instituted some contrary to that GOD had given ---"traditions and commandments of men".

The Disciples were given the command by Jesus to go into all the world and correct those errors---first to the Jews and then to the Gentiles. Paul was a zealous believer in GOD, but initially, did persecute the believers in the truth which GOD/Jesus had taught(The everlasting Gospel).

Where there were Synagogues, those assembledges/congregations were already established. However, each person had to decide/choose the truth of the Scriptures or Sacred Writings for themself.(No different than today). Where there were no Believers, as persons acknowledged the truths which were set before them, they formed new "churches"(believing the same Everlasting Gospel).
Paul wrote epistles/letters back to those Believers who acknowledged that Jesus was the SON, of GOD the Father, and HIS mission was to secure the Salvation of the person by dying the Believers death penalty for that person. Those letters gave encouragement, hope, love, peace of mind, strength, etc. to those "churches".

The Jewish Pharisees were the ones who continued the persecuting of the followers of Jesus and the Truth as the scriptures outlined from Sinai. Paul was ashamed of his role as persecutor of GOD'S people.

Who were those Pharisees?

 

[sincerly]

Who were those Pharisees?

Acts15:5, "But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command [them] to keep the law of Moses."

Acts 17:13, " But when the Jews of Thessalonica had knowledge that the word of God was preached of Paul at Berea, they came thither also, and stirred up the people."

Therefore, Believing and non-believing Jews. Jesus came the fulfill the scriptures and seek and Save those who were lost.

 

[waitasec]

Jesus came the fulfill the scriptures and seek and Save those who were lost.

what if one knows where they are?

 

[sincerly]

what if one knows where they are?

The Scriptures tell of three classes of "lost" persons. God is aware of all three classes. There are persons who are "seeking for the "lost"---in the "Go Ye and teach".
There are those who have heard and accept the directions back into the right way and those who reject the instructions.

Many of those the scriptures discribe as lost are totally satisfied and they have chosen to stay in that condition. Again, ones Choice.

 

[waitasec]

The Scriptures tell of three classes of "lost" persons.

pure conjecture...in order to justify ones judgment of others...

 

[Shermana]

I think he's referring to the story of the sower. There are three types of seeds that didn't make it: Those in rocky soil, those eaten by birds, and those who grew among thorns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Sower

​

 

[waitasec]

I think he's referring to the story of the sower. There are three types of seeds that didn't make it: Those in rocky soil, those eaten by birds, and those who grew among thorns.

Parable of the Sower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

​

maybe...
regardless, the implications are based on the assumptions that one is considered to be "lost" if they do not agree, thereby deeming those

who are "seeking for the "lost"---in the "Go Ye and teach".

are not lost...and it takes a fair amount of hubris to believe one is not lost...in order to think they are in the position to seek them out

 

[Shermana]

Many of those the scriptures discribe as lost are totally satisfied and they have chosen to stay in that condition. Again, ones Choice.

What makes you think that you are not lost by your own choice? What makes you think that those who have a different Theology than yours are "lost"? Is it about actual behavior and personal conduct? Is there thus a relationship between Behavior (works/effort) and salvation?

Why did Jesus say that he did "Not come for the righteous"? Was he being rhetorical in that there were no one righteous that he didn't live and die for?

 

[waitasec]

you said it
:beach:

 

[sincerly]

pure conjecture...in order to justify ones judgment of others...

No conjecture!! Jesus spoke/taught the Parables for the principles they contain. One can apply those principles to their own selves---in association with their status as declared in the Scriptures. Not judgment, but choice of toeing the mark/
adhering to the plumb-line.

 

[sincerly]

What makes you think that you are not lost by your own choice? What Behavior (works/effort) and salvation?
makes you think that those who have a different Theology than yours are "lost"? Is it about actual behavior and personal conduct? Is there thus a relationship between
Why did Jesus say that he did "Not come for the righteous"? Was he being rhetorical in that there were no one righteous that he didn't live and die for?

Shermana, I, nor anyone will actually know their status until the closure of the book of life of the individual. Ezek.18:27-32. One can change from good to bad or bad to good before that DAY. Therefore, the admonition to always be of the acceptable attitude.

It is the Scriptures in which GOD gave the right standards by which one is to live---That is only in relationship to HIS Requirements---not as one accepts one's own/in contrary to GOD'S specifications. The "Righteousness" of the standard set forth by GOD does manifest itself in the "behavior and personal conduct" of the Believer.
Jesus died for the sinner of whom all persons are guilty. The Sinner may just repent and be obedient as Ezek.18 admonishes.

Jesus stated that all must be born again--- there are none who are righteous enough on their own to be allowed into the Kingdom.(All are dead in trespasses and sins.)

Matt.9:9-13, "But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."
The context answers your query.

 

[waitasec]

No conjecture!! Jesus spoke/taught the Parables for the principles they contain. One can apply those principles to their own selves---in association with their status as declared in the Scriptures. Not judgment, but choice of toeing the mark/
adhering to the plumb-line.

by "seeking for the "lost"---in the "go ye and teach"
sure ok :slap:


wow....the disconnect is unsettling

 

[waitasec]

Shermana, I, nor anyone will actually know their status until the closure of the book of life of the individual.

yet they know they are to be "seeking for the "lost"---in the "go ye and teach"

amazing.

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly
Shermana, I, nor anyone will actually know their status until the closure of the book of life of the individual.

yet they know they are to be "seeking for the "lost"---in the "go ye and teach"

amazing.

What's so amazing about seeing(visually and figuratively) the attitudes/actions/ and "fruits" of any individual??

 

[waitasec]

What's so amazing about seeing(visually and figuratively) the attitudes/actions/ and "fruits" of any individual??

nothing...whats amazing is acting upon assumptions as if they were truth...as it has to be truth, in order to justify ones judgment of others

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly
What's so amazing about seeing(visually and figuratively) the attitudes/actions/ and "fruits" of any individual??

nothing...whats amazing is acting upon assumptions as if they were truth...as it has to be truth, in order to justify ones judgment of others

Waitasec, assumptions are made upon the evidence expressed by someone....over and over which is contrary to the truth. And that basing is upon the standard set down by the Authority. When the subject is the Bible, then the standard is the Bible, not Secular works.

 

[waitasec]

Originally Posted by sincerly
What's so amazing about seeing(visually and figuratively) the attitudes/actions/ and "fruits" of any individual??



Waitasec, assumptions are made upon the evidence expressed by someone....over and over which is contrary to the truth. And that basing is upon the standard set down by the Authority. When the subject is the Bible, then the standard is the Bible, not Secular works.

the only thing you have evidence for is for skepticism
but making statements like these:

"Likely" doesn't prove anything, but your own skepticism/bias/opinion.

with this as a follow up

MY """skepticism of the majority scholarly agreement?"""

sure looks like you are judging those that are skeptical with vein conceit...
so what? why do you care?
philippians 2:3

Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.


and it adds nothing to discussion as you constantly make comments about people by avoiding the point they are making.
and it is a violation...of the RF rules.
and it's annoying....thusly not making it easy to take what ever you say seriously.
and it's self defeating