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Featured Did Moses break the tablets with God's law on them?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Remté, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Maybe they were carved in pumice:p Light enough to float, but still a fairly tough rock.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  2. Salvador

    Salvador Conscious Being

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    At this point, I'd just be nitpicking. ...:D
     
  3. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    My my my...

    Where do I start... The video is missing Aaron since Exodus says Aaron went up the mountain with Moses, perhaps as a witness. Perhaps to keep the cast low in a scene, Hollywood decided Aaron was not sharing the stage with Charlton Heston!!!

    In any case Moses broke all the law eventually and God made a complete new set
     
  4. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Well-Known Member
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    Nonetheless this represents a tribal conflict among the tribes of the Canaanites. My God or Gods are better than your God or Gods.
     
  5. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Seeing at the time of Moses and the first five books of Moses out dates the Qu'ran about 3000 years.
    Need there be anything more said
     
  6. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    Yes. The books have been ruined. They are not to be trusted.
     
  7. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Then why are you in defending the Qu'ran if it's been ruined and not to be trusted as you say.
     
  8. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    I wasn't referring to the Quran but the books before it.
     
  9. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    In the Quran it does not say whether the Tablets were smashed or not. Some translations say Moses threw them down not put them down.

    But the essence of both stories do not contradict but confirm each other that

    1. Moses received a Revelation in the form of Tablets from God
    2. While doing so His followers became idolatrous by worshipping an idol
    3. Idol worship was condemned by Moses and they sought forgiveness.

    In your post where you say “it is said that it would be outrageous”... are you quoting from the Quran? Which Sura? If you read that in a commentary then that has nothing to do with the Quran. The Quran nowhere states to my knowledge that it would be outrageous for Moses to have broken the Tablets so you need to provide a Sura number confirming that if you believe it was from the explicit text of the Quran not a commentary.
     
  10. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    Yes but he lifts them up again and the story goes on without the slightest indication they were on any way broken.

    It is from the commentary - though I don't remeber how it was worded - and very much has something to do with the Quran. But whether you agree with it being outrageous or not is not relevant. I was only communicating the point that this is one Muslim view to the biblical story.
     
  11. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    Hi --
    Can you show me where it is called the Ten Commandments in the text?
    Thanks.
     
  12. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Exodus 34 28
     
  13. Flankerl

    Flankerl Well-Known Member

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    I didn't mention other Canaanite Tribes. I meant the Tribes of Israel who weren't united, not even Religion.

    And yet you claim that there was some form of control by the priests when in reality the common folk went astray every other week.
     
  14. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    In that verse, there is a phrase, עֲשֶׂ֖רֶת הַדְּבָרִֽים, aseret had'varim. The root d-v-r is "thing" or "saying/word." The word דברים is used over 30 times in the 5 books of Moses. Are you saying that it means "commandments" in each of those cases? Strangely, most, if not all of the translations that have it as "commandments" at the end of the verse have it as "words" in the same verse, slightly earlier (and elsewhere, cf Gen 11:1).

    What in its root refers to "command" and how would that work in cases such as Ex. 4:10? If you are referring to Strong's 1696/97 (though I don't know if you consider Strong to be an authority worth relying on) then he seems to point to the tz-v-h root (6680, through to 4687) as the word for a divine commandment.

    If the issue has to do with the introductory prefix הַ, that word is used 30 other times textually and as early as Genesis 15:1 but doesn't seem to mean "commandments" there (also, cf Gen 44:6).

    You had also said that "only one of the three is called the "Ten Commandments" in the text itself" and then you cited Ex 34. How does that relate to Deut 4:12 which also uses the phrase to refer to the 10 statements?
     
  15. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Sorry, I do not play semantic games.
     
  16. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Because the Quran confirms the Torah and Bible as from God I think that it just summarizes but doesn’t go into all the detail except it adds tgevbit about Moses grabbing His brother’s head.

    It doesn’t deny what the Bible has stated.
     
  17. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Well-Known Member
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    There was uniformity among the earliest Hebrew tribes in common with the Canaanites. Small clay statues of a female Canaanite God All tribes at the time had a hierarchy of a ruling class and priesthood. There is no such thing as 'just common folk.' There is specific evidence of Canaanite and Canaanite/proto- Hebrew written language among the Hebrews going back about 11,000 BCE.
     
  18. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    It confirmes the prophets from whom they came from. It doesn't agree with the current books. They have differences. Even the story of the golden calf is different in the Torah and in the Quran in that in the Quran Aaron has no part in the making of the golden calf.
     
  19. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    The message though is the same in both Books that idol worship is deemed unacceptable by God.
     
  20. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    There were more than two tablets in the Quran. And I suppose (am not sure)it isn't suggested they were made of stone at all.
     
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