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Featured Did Moses break the tablets with God's law on them?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Remté, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    I'm not really sure I understand why it should matter what the Qur'an says for anyone who isn't a Muslim or academic. That aside, according to Judaism, G-d agreed to Moses breaking the tablets and even provided him with another set.

    I can't go into the depths of the idea there with you, but superficially at least, if you look at the verse it says that Moses only got angry after he got to the camp. But he had just finished begging G-d for mercy for this very sin, so why is he only getting angry now? The order of the verse also says, that Moses came close to the encampment and then it says that he broke the tablets at the foot of the mountain. But the encampment was far enough away from the mountain that Joshua, the person Moses first encounters doesn't realize what all the sound is about. That means that Moses actually arrive at the camp, turned around and walked back to the mountain to break them. Deut. 9:17 adds that Moses did this before the eyes of the nation. I think this paints a somewhat different picture: Moses obviously knew what was going on before he got to the camp, that's what he had been praying to G-d for. The whole thing here was a show for the people as a wake-up call. He came to the camp, put his angry face on, got everyone's attention, then turned around and walked back to the mountain and broke the tablets in front of everyone's eyes. Additionally, the tablets represent G-d's Law. According to G-d's Law, they all deserved to die. By breaking them before officially depositing them among the people, it's as though the buyer never received his purchase, the deal was never sealed, so they won't have to all be killed. This gives Moses the opportunity to help the nation repent.
     
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  2. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    So this is the way it is in Judaism? How did God agree on breaking them? Can you quote those verses?
     
  3. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    What was written on the replacement set?
     
  4. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    It's not the full idea, but I can explain this much to you.
    It's derived from Deut. 10:2, "which you have broken". The Rabbis understand that these words are superfluous to the context and would only serve to embarrass Moses if he was in the wrong. This leads the Rabbis to conclude the opposite, he was in the right and this statement is meant like a pat on the back. We also don't find Moses receiving punishment for this as opposed to, for instance, Num. 20:12.
     
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  5. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    Deut 5:6-17.

    Edit: To clarify that's Ex. 20:2-13 on the first set and Deut. 5:6-17 on the second.
     
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  6. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Nope. Tell me what was the Tenth Commandment?
     
  7. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    I understand Moses' short temper. It was the example he took from God. I was just thinking of the silly term 'manifestation of God' for a prophet, but this Moses could well be the manifestation of this God in this story. They're both alike.
     
  8. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    It was the same in both.
     
  9. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    No, you need to read the Bible. It is quite clear about what happened after he broke the first set. It lays it out very clearly in Exodus 34. By the way, this is the only set called the "Ten Commandments" in the text of the Bible itself. Some chapters may be titled that way, but the title was added later.

    The Tenth Commandment amounts to a ban on cheese burgers.
     
  10. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    No what?

     
  11. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    You might want to work on that reading comprehension. Read the entire sentence. That should help.

    Were the"The Commandments " in Exodus 34, the second set made, the same as you see elsewhere in the Bible? And yet it is quite clear that those were to replace the broken set.
     
  12. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    Not to covet one's friend's stuff.
     
  13. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    Judaism does not believe in manifestations of G-d, nor that G-d has emotions.
     
  14. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Not a ban on cheese burgers? Exodus 34 26. The second set of Commandments.
     
  15. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    No, Ex. 34:26 is not the second set of commandments. Ex. 20 is the first set and Deut. 5 is the second set.
     
  16. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    That is not what the Bible says at all. You are reinterpreting to avoid the self contradiction.
     
  17. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    No I'm not, you're creating an unnecessary contradiction. Ex. 34:1 says that G-d would write on the tablets hewn by Moses, the things that were on the first tablets. Ex. 34:28 says that G-d wrote the Ten Commandments on the tablets. The part in the middle was what Moses was told to write. He was not told to write it on the tablets and that interpretation does not logically follow from Ex. 34:1.
     
  18. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Now you are not making any sense at all. Don't worry, the Bible is filled with self contradictions.
     
  19. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    Please do clarify.

    That's one possibility. I'm not sure it's logical to believe it more likely that a "redactor" left a book filled with contradictions, than to believe that they didn't see those as contradictions to begin with. But whatever gets your boat floating, I guess.
     
  20. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Do you have a preferred translation?

    What most do not realize is that the Old Testament, including the Torah, is much younger than their religion generally teaches them.
     
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