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Did Jesus Survive?

Colt

Well-Known Member
Thanks again. Jews plotted to kill him (John 11:53) SO Jesus NO LONGER walked in public among the people of Judea (John 11:54) and Jesus continued not walk in public among the people of Judea.

Saying "The claim that Jesus had an obligation to walk around Judea among his enemies yet failed to do so is a human construct, a strawman, a contrived argument" is not true because Acts 26:23 says "the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles". So it is a must had Jesus been resurrected.

*** Acts 26:23 is Paul speaking about preaching the Gospel before and after Jesus returned to heaven which fulfilled what the prophets said. Full context:

19 “Therefore, O King Agrippa, I (Paul) was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance. the Jews seized me in the temple and tried to kill me. To this day I have had the help that comes from God, and so I stand here testifying both to small and great, saying nothing but what the prophets and Moses said would come to pass: that the Christ must suffer and that, by being the first to rise from the dead, he would proclaim light both to our people and to the Gentiles.”

***Jesus had already preached all throughout Judea for 3+ years before being apprehended and killed because of his Gospel. The apostles were to continue to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom to the 4 corners of the earth after Jesus returned to heaven.


(Mark 3:7–12; Luke 6:17–19)

23Jesus went throughout Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every disease and sickness among the people. 24News about Him spread all over Syria, and people brought to Him all who were ill with various diseases, those suffering acute pain, the demon-possessed, those having seizures, and the paralyzed—and He healed them.

25The large crowds that followed Him came from Galilee, the Decapolis,f Jerusalem, Judea, and beyond the Jordan.




****John 1:9-13 The true Light who gives light to every man was coming into the world. 10He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him. 11He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.

Lament over Jerusalem
(Luke 13:31–35)

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! Look, your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.
 
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I owe you certain clarifications as follows;

1. Saying "Jesus had already preached all throughout Judea for 3+ years before being apprehended and killed because of his Gospel" is not true in relation to the trial of Jesus because Jesus limited his foretelling of his sufferings only to his disciples.

2. Saying "The apostles were to continue to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom to the 4 corners of the earth after Jesus returned to heaven" is not in line with what Jesus commanded the disciples right before his return to heaven in Matthew 28:19-20 that is to request to keep what Jesus commanded.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
I owe you certain clarifications as follows;

1. Saying "Jesus had already preached all throughout Judea for 3+ years before being apprehended and killed because of his Gospel" is not true in relation to the trial of Jesus because Jesus limited his foretelling of his sufferings only to his disciples.

2. Saying "The apostles were to continue to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom to the 4 corners of the earth after Jesus returned to heaven" is not in line with what Jesus commanded the disciples right before his return to heaven in Matthew 28:19-20 that is to request to keep what Jesus commanded.

*** Jesus did in fact foretell his rejection and death both publicly and privately.


Jesus teaching in the Temple

John 8

1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.2Early in the morning He went back into the temple courts. All the people came to Him, and He sat down to teach them.


I know you are Abraham’s descendants, but you are trying to kill Me because My word has no place within you. 38I speak of what I have seen in the presence of the Father, and you do what you have heard from your father.”39“Abraham is our father,” they replied.

“If you were children of Abraham,” said Jesus, “you would do the works of Abraham. 40But now you are trying to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham never did such a thing. 41You are doing the works of your father.”

“We are not illegitimate children,” they declared. “Our only Father is God Himself.”42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on My own, but He sent Me.43Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you are unable to accept My message. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out his desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, refusing to uphold the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, because he is a liar and the father of lies. 45But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me!

Again Jesus teaches publicly in the Temple of his rejection and death and to a large crowd.

Matthew 21:33-46 reads:

Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower and he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit and the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one and stoned another. Again he sent other servants, more than the first and they did likewise to them. Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him. “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?” They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.” Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

The stone which the builders rejected

Has become the chief cornerstone.

This was the Lord’s doing,

And it is marvelous in our eyes?’

Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it and whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”

Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them, but when they sought to lay hands on Him, they feared the multitudes, because they took Him for a prophet.”

Again Jesus refers to his death and resurrection by his own volition.

Jesus Clears the Temple Courts

13
When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14In the temple courts he found people selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. 15So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16To those who sold doves he said, “Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!” 17His disciples remembered that it is written: “Zeal for your house will consume me.”

18The Jews then responded to him, “What sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?”

19
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

20They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 21But the temple he had spoken of was his body. 22After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

23
Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name. 24But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all people. 25He did not need any testimony about mankind, for he knew what was in each person.

Again Jesus refers to his rejection and death.

29“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!

The Great Commission

16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said,
“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”


Luke 24

45Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46He told them,
“This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48You are witnesses of these things. 49I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”
 
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Jesus did in fact foretell his rejection and death both publicly and privately.

Had Jesus been risen in an immortal body, Jesus should have appeared even once to at least one of his alleged killers of Jews because Jesus promised the Jews to perform the miracle of Jonah.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
Had Jesus been risen in an immortal body, Jesus should have appeared even once to at least one of his alleged killers of Jews because Jesus promised the Jews to perform the miracle of Jonah.
Again, Jesus appeared to a number of people. You are adding that he promised to appear to his unbelieving enemies who demanded a "sign".

“This is a wicked generation. It asks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah

But I would add that the miracle did play out before the Romen guards whose fellows had put Jesus to death. They reported it to the "chief priests".

Matthew 28:1-20
Jesus Has Risen

1After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

2There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. 4The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men.

5The angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. 6He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay. 7Then go quickly and tell his disciples: ‘He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.’ Now I have told you.”

8So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. 10Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me.”

The Guards’ Report

11While the women were on their way, some of the guards went into the city and reported to the chief priests everything that had happened. 12When the chief priests had met with the elders and devised a plan, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money, telling them, “You are to say, ‘His disciples came during the night and stole him away while we were asleep.’ 14If this report gets to the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble.” 15So the soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed. And this story has been widely circulated among the Jews to this very day.

So there you have it! The guards did in fact witness it, reported it to the chief priests who paid to have the story go go away!

Another thing to consider is that Jesus appeared to Saul, a known unbeliever and persecutor of Christians.

 
Again, Jesus appeared to a number of people.

1. Saying "Jesus appeared to a number of people" but Jesus NO LONGER walked in public among the Jews as per John 11:54 because the Jews plotted to kill him as per John 11:53.

2. Jews were looking for a miraculous sign in Matthew 12:38 as follows and the miracle of Jonah was survival of death.

1- New Living Translation
2- Good News Translation
3- God's Word Translation
4- Mace New Testament


Matthew 12:39 Parallel: But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
1. Saying "Jesus appeared to a number of people" but Jesus NO LONGER walked in public among the Jews as per John 11:54 because the Jews plotted to kill him as per John 11:53.

2. Jews were looking for a miraculous sign in Matthew 12:38 as follows and the miracle of Jonah was survival of death.

1- New Living Translation
2- Good News Translation
3- God's Word Translation
4- Mace New Testament


Matthew 12:39 Parallel: But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

John 11:54 is pre-crucifixion and irrelevant to the appearances of Jesus after the resurrection. Jesus resurrected from the dead after 3 days (as he said he would) and appeared to a number of eyewitnesses who had already been believers. Jesus had been clear that he wasn't going to give the "sign" that his evil enemies demanded.

As far as we know most of the people Jesus appeared to after he returned from the dead were Jews which fulfills the prophecy. The Roman guards witnessed it and the Jewish authorities tried to hide the guards report of the resurrection. That’s all in the scripture.
 
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Please allow me to correct the following;

1. Saying "John 11:54 is pre-crucifixion and irrelevant to the appearances of Jesus after the resurrection" is not true because John 11:53-54 say "FROM THAT DAY AND ONWARD they plotted to kill him. SO Jesus NO LONGER walked in public among the Jews" and Jesus continued to not walk even once in public in Judea because the Jews always plotted to kill him.

2. Saying "Jesus resurrected from the dead after 3 days (as he said he would) and appeared to a number of eyewitnesses who had already been believers" is not true because NONE SAW him rising from the dead.

3. Saying "Jesus had been clear that he wasn't going to give the "sign" that his evil enemies demanded" is not true because in Matthew 16:4 Jesus says "A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given IT except the sign of Jonah.”

All behaviors of Jesus show that it is more probable that Jesus survived.
 
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