Did Jesus say he was God???

[1robin]

Because I'm trying to figure out who would make a good moderator we'd both agree to.

How about Legion?

I haven't seen you make any suggestions.

I did not make suggestions for three reasons.

1. I was not asked to.
2. I had no idea how this debate worked because I could not get any answers to my questions until I got a few lately.
3. I do not know staff personnel well enough to suggest anyone.

Regardless, just let me know.

 

[Shermana]

Doesn't have to be staff, can be any member who you would agree would be objective to call out and moderate.

 

[1robin]

Doesn't have to be staff, can be any member who you would agree would be objective to call out and moderate.

Are you trying to suggest that I present a candidate or two for consideration?

 

[Muffled]

:beach: And all of these written words are true !
~
And....when, and on which occassions were they all said,
and written down, old expression : "Write that down !"
How many different stenogrophers were at each place of these utterences !
~
Sorry....can't buy it, but no-one cares anyway.
~
`mud

I believe so.

Does one have to be a genius to recognize that words have been written down? They didn't just evolve into being did they? As far as I know no magician conjured them.

I believe I care.

 

[Muffled]

I can't believe this thread/debate is still going.....WOW!

I believe I had a little help from those who went off topic.

I find this verse as new evidence: John 12:44 ¶ And Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
45 And he that beholdeth me beholdeth him that sent me.

 

[Muffled]

I believe I had a little help from those who went off topic.

I find this verse as new evidence: John 12:44 ¶ And Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
45 And he that beholdeth me beholdeth him that sent me.

anothe supporting verse from John: John 13:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

 

[1robin]

The Himdus believe in re-incarnation. There is Biblical evidence from Jesus who I believe is God in the flesh so He should know better than anyone.

I don't believe they were following a wrong way but simply a way that didn't work very well. The way of Jesus is the way, so it is not time limited. I suppose you think Mohammed coming later had a better way but he didn't. His way was the same way that was explained in the OT but was supplanted by the law and Islam managed to supplant Islam with a law (Sharia) also which goes to show that man will do everything in his power to avoid a direct relationship with God.

Moses knew God so it would make sense that he would know Him now. I will grant that most of past lives are forgotten but some things are retained. I believe something as important as knowing God would be retained.

What is a himdu? Is that a male human that is doing something?

 

[Muffled]

What is a himdu? Is that a male human that is doing something?

"an adherent of Hinduism" qoute is from Wikipedia topic of Hindu.

I imagine that you are being facetious and that you actually know what a Hindu is.

I believe if the question is what does that have to do with a Christian, I would say that Christinaity doesn't cover every aspect of reality. However I also believe the form of reincarnation talked about in the Uphanishads is not what really happens and I believe the Uphanishads to be the reasoning of men.

 

[1robin]

"an adherent of Hinduism" qoute is from Wikipedia topic of Hindu.

I imagine that you are being facetious and that you actually know what a Hindu is.

I believe if the question is what does that have to do with a Christian, I would say that Christinaity doesn't cover every aspect of reality. However I also believe the form of reincarnation talked about in the Uphanishads is not what really happens and I believe the Uphanishads to be the reasoning of men.

Of course I was. You typed hiMdu instead of Hindu. I was just kidding.



Where is Shermana? He was in this thread every day for months. he challenged me to a formal debate, mentioned something about praying for liars to be silent. He then immediately went silent and disappeared. Have you heard from him/her? Hope nothing is wrong.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Hi guys.

Sorry for the intrusion, but shouldn't proofs be quoted from the original scriptures? Or at least from translations with reference to their original sources?

Muhammad told us to not over praise him (if the expression is right) the way Christians over praised Jesus Son or Marry (roughly translated, source in Arabic is available if interested). So in my beliefs, early Christians over praised Jesus that little by little caused the modern belief that Jesus is divine and he is God or his Son.

Please note that I'm only stating my beliefs and by no means disrespecting others'. If this post disrespects any one by any mean, please do tell so I can delete it.

 

[1robin]

Hi guys.

Sorry for the intrusion, but shouldn't proofs be quoted from the original scriptures? Or at least from translations with reference to their original sources?

Muhammad told us to not over praise him (if the expression is right) the way Christians over praised Jesus Son or Marry (roughly translated, source in Arabic is available if interested). So in my beliefs, early Christians over praised Jesus that little by little caused the modern belief that Jesus is divine and he is God or his Son.

Please note that I'm only stating my beliefs and by no means disrespecting others'. If this post disrespects any one by any mean, please do tell so I can delete it.

Jesus claimed to be the co-occupant of God's throne, he claimed to the messiah, He claimed all of creation was placed under him, he claimed to have existed eternally, he claimed to see him was to see the father, he claimed to forgive all men's sins, he claimed to be the savior of all mankind, he allowed himself to be called Lord and worshiped. If anything ever deserved being worshipped he does. He killed no-one, he was absolutely perfect, he was divine, he is Lord. No Angel, no prophet, nor Muhammad can claim any one of those attributes so what may be true of Muhammad and everything else would not be true of Christ. Christ saved me and forgave me in person (spiritually). I will worship him. I think Islam makes a grave error in comparing Muhammad to Christ. They are not even slightly in the same realm. What Muhammad deserves does not apply to Christ and vice versa.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Jesus claimed to be the co-occupant of God's throne, he claimed to the messiah, He claimed all of creation was placed under him, he claimed to have existed eternally, he claimed to see him was to see the father, he claimed to forgive all men's sins, he claimed to be the savior of all mankind, he allowed himself to be called Lord and worshiped. If anything ever deserved being worshipped he does. He killed no-one, he was absolutely perfect, he was divine, he is Lord. No Angel, no prophet, nor Muhammad can claim any one of those attributes so what may be true of Muhammad and everything else would not be true of Christ. Christ saved me and forgave me in person (spiritually). I will worship him. I think Islam makes a grave error in comparing Muhammad to Christ. They are not even slightly in the same realm. What Muhammad deserves does not apply to Christ and vice versa.

I understand. Your belief and I respect it even if it is against mine.

 

[1robin]

I understand. Your belief and I respect it even if it is against mine.

I applaud your civility. Take my comments as what is true of a concept. Taking what I said from what is true of a concept and applying it to proof that the concept is based in reality is a bit harder but I have much experience doing so, but it requires a far different conversation. I was trying only to explain why Christ is worshiped not trying to prove those things are true. I can however try and do so if you desire.

 

[Smart_Guy]

I applaud your civility. Take my comments as what is true of a concept. Taking what I said from what is true of a concept and applying it to proof that the concept is based in reality is a bit harder but I have much experience doing so, but it requires a far different conversation. I was trying only to explain why Christ is worshiped not trying to prove those things are true. I can however try and do so if you desire.

Believe me when I say that I took/take your words with a complete open mind. Now that I know your good nature and intent, I have you on the top of the list if I needed to know anything about Christianity.

Cheers

 

[1robin]

Believe me when I say that I took/take your words with a complete open mind. Now that I know your good nature and intent, I have you on the top of the list if I needed to know anything about Christianity.

Cheers

Anytime.

 

[Muffled]

Hi guys.

Sorry for the intrusion, but shouldn't proofs be quoted from the original scriptures? Or at least from translations with reference to their original sources?

Muhammad told us to not over praise him (if the expression is right) the way Christians over praised Jesus Son or Marry (roughly translated, source in Arabic is available if interested). So in my beliefs, early Christians over praised Jesus that little by little caused the modern belief that Jesus is divine and he is God or his Son.

Please note that I'm only stating my beliefs and by no means disrespecting others'. If this post disrespects any one by any mean, please do tell so I can delete it.

Welcome to RF. It is great to have a smart guy to talk to.

I hope you are not going to go into the old nonsense of the scripture being changed but I agree scripture should be quoted as proof.

I would say extremely loosely translated if that is the meaning that was derived from what I assume is the verse to which you refer.

I believe that is incorrect and that one can find scripture to support the divinity of Jesus. I actually believe the Quaran when understood correctly also supports the divinity of Jesus. I have debated that particular verse in the Quaran and even looked at the Arabic to see whether the translation was realistic.

I believe there are some who just spout eccesiastical doctrine as though orthodoxy is equavalent to truth but it would be refreshing to find someone willing to investigate the validity of his beliefs. I believe we do get some diatribe on here but there are a handful that discuss things rationally and I am glad you one of them.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Welcome to RF. It is great to have a smart guy to talk to.

I hope you are not going to go into the old nonsense of the scripture being changed but I agree scripture should be quoted as proof.

I would say extremely loosely translated if that is the meaning that was derived from what I assume is the verse to which you refer.

I believe that is incorrect and that one can find scripture to support the divinity of Jesus. I actually believe the Quaran when understood correctly also supports the divinity of Jesus. I have debated that particular verse in the Quaran and even looked at the Arabic to see whether the translation was realistic.

I believe there are some who just spout eccesiastical doctrine as though orthodoxy is equavalent to truth but it would be refreshing to find someone willing to investigate the validity of his beliefs. I believe we do get some diatribe on here but there are a handful that discuss things rationally and I am glad you one of them.

Thanks Muffled.

I actually feel bad for my post and I wish I hadn't typed it. I made a vow not to debate in religion as it might offend the other side, yet I failed and did it, and I mean breaking the vow. I apologize for any possible offense may be found in my post.

I guess it is too late to delete it now that it was quoted.

 

[Philomath]

Jesus could have easily ended this debate by explicitly making it clear who he was.

 

[Sees]

Jesus could have easily ended this debate by explicitly making it clear who he was.

This was a problem for me when a young Christian. If eternal fate was decided on belief in truth of a story or writings it wouldn't be beating around the bush and a big source of confusion/conflict. It just makes it seem like a bunch of folks not quite sure what they are talking about, yet sure you must talk about it anyway and believe.

The quiz-show/game aspect.

 

[Philomath]

This was a problem for me when a young Christian. If eternal fate was decided on belief in truth of a story or writings it wouldn't be beating around the bush and a big source of confusion/conflict. It just makes it seem like a bunch of folks not quite sure what they are talking about, yet sure you must talk about it anyway and believe.

The quiz-show/game aspect.

Which was one of the reasons I left it behind. What's your belief about Jesus though?