• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Did Jesus lie?

This does sound like a a lie to me.
John 7:6-10 NLT
Jesus replied, "Now is not the right time for me to go, but you can go anytime. [7] The world can't hate you, but it does hate me because I accuse it of doing evil. [8] You go on. I'm not going to this festival, because my time has not yet come." [9] After saying these things, Jesus remained in Galilee. [10] But after his brothers left for the festival, Jesus also went, though secretly, staying out of public view.
This proves Jesus is a sinner. Or does it not?
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
This does sound like a a lie to me.
John 7:6-10 NLT
Jesus replied, "Now is not the right time for me to go, but you can go anytime. [7] The world can't hate you, but it does hate me because I accuse it of doing evil. [8] You go on. I'm not going to this festival, because my time has not yet come." [9] After saying these things, Jesus remained in Galilee. [10] But after his brothers left for the festival, Jesus also went, though secretly, staying out of public view.
This proves Jesus is a sinner. Or does it not?
I don't like the NLT myself.

In the KJV or YLT we read:

6 Jesus, therefore, saith to them, `My time is not yet present, but your time is always ready;
7 the world is not able to hate you, but me it doth hate, because I testify concerning it that its works are evil.
8 Ye -- go ye up to this feast; I do not yet go up to this feast, because my time hath not yet been fulfilled;'
9 and saying these things to them, he remained in Galilee.
10 And when his brethren went up, then also he himself went up to the feast, not manifestly, but as in secret;

I prefer the versions that say "I do not yet go up to this feast" There is no reason for me to doubt them. This is based off of the venerable and trusted Textus Receptus. The new translations use other sources that are not as trustworthy in my opinion. Their argument being that these documents are older. But just because something is older doesn't mean it's more trustworthy. After all it's still a so called copy. So a copy not the original source document. That means the Textus Receptus is more trustworthy because these other copies were not used likely for a very good reason.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I'm still using King James.....1960ed

I won't let a small detail turn my attention
obviously......He did not want to enter the feast with His followers
that would draw attention

as noted...some parties were already set about killing Him

He was using a subtle approach
nothing more
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
Pastor gets up, nfers that jesus is a wingnut, and the jews had no reason to follow him, then says that jesus said some cool things regarding his own sacrificial role for the people he is upbraiding, then smiles and waits for you to get it that you shoudnt be following this ditsy nut,
Then asks for moolah with collection plate.
They are really subtle aren't they? Reminds me of 2 Corinthians 11:14-15. :rolleyes:

I really believe that satan has sown tares among the wheat.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
This does sound like a a lie to me.
John 7:6-10 NLT
Jesus replied, "Now is not the right time for me to go, but you can go anytime. [7] The world can't hate you, but it does hate me because I accuse it of doing evil. [8] You go on. I'm not going to this festival, because my time has not yet come." [9] After saying these things, Jesus remained in Galilee. [10] But after his brothers left for the festival, Jesus also went, though secretly, staying out of public view.
This proves Jesus is a sinner. Or does it not?

By definition, yes. The idea wasn't to misconceived as something g negative; but to keep his motives from his disciples for whatever reason.

You can lie to keep a secret. Some call it white lies. Though, given its jesus he gets a break because lying as a sin is determined such by motive not by the lie itself.
 

Jon reign

Member
Since the agenda of some of these bible translations intent is to make jesus seem like a wacky rabbi, this isn't surprising. There are various verses where the wording is subtely changed, once you undetstand what the goal is, its easy to notice.
That being said, I dont really know anything about that bible translation specifically
Im curious brother, do you comprehend koine greek, latin or Aramaic?
 

Jon reign

Member
I'm still using King James.....1960ed

I won't let a small detail turn my attention
obviously......He did not want to enter the feast with His followers
that would draw attention

as noted...some parties were already set about killing Him

He was using a subtle approach
nothing more
Does the new testament offer any guidance on "permissible" lying as in the case of saving your own life?
 

Jon reign

Member
Original text is supposed to be in Greek, however there are theories that much was originally in Aramaic, or Hebrew. The verses most easily compared, for me, are the ones involving the Geeek, since anyone can tell if certain words are missing, so forth. The verses that I refer to, I'm very careful about, however because, book of John, for example, uses words that may mean more than one thing, you compare things contextually. You're welcome to comment on any of my threads regarding Bible verses, you don't have to know many languages, to do that.

Welcome to the forums
In the verse being discussed "yet" seems to hold weight, can you offer a break down of this word in an original language
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Does the new testament offer any guidance on "permissible" lying as in the case of saving your own life?
not that I can recite.

however.....when dealing someone who wants to kill you
are they worthy of the information they are willing to kill you for?

and if you surrender the information.....will they spare your life?

seems to me...
saving my own life by a lie is a form of self defense
saving others by a lie is also defense

I suppose scripture might hold me accountable later on....
he who seeks to save his life shall lose it

as if truth before all else?

but I knee jerk back immediately
dealing with someone seeking your death......
no holds barred
 

Jon reign

Member
not that I can recite.

however.....when dealing someone who wants to kill you
are they worthy of the information they are willing to kill you for?

and if you surrender the information.....will they spare your life?

seems to me...
saving my own life by a lie is a form of self defense
saving others by a lie is also defense

I suppose scripture might hold me accountable later on....
he who seeks to save his life shall lose it

as if truth before all else?

but I knee jerk back immediately
dealing with someone seeking your death......
no holds barred
I find it inappropriate for a believer to make rulings on an issue w/o scriptural authority. Thoughts?
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I find it inappropriate for a believer to make rulings on an issue w/o scriptural authority. Thoughts?
and the disciples complained......

see that fellow....he teaches and performs miracles
and he is not one of us
Forbid him.....for he is not one of us

and He said in reply.....Nay
that He performs as we do.....he is with us
not against us

and of course.....when the Carpenter quoted scripture
He quoted scripture of His time and of His people

what we quote in this century......was not His to recite
 

Jon reign

Member
and the disciples complained......

see that fellow....he teaches and performs miracles
and he is not one of us
Forbid him.....for he is not one of us

and He said in reply.....Nay
that He performs as we do.....he is with us
not against us

and of course.....when the Carpenter quoted scripture
He quoted scripture of His time and of His people

what we quote in this century......was not His to recite
I don't understand the corelation
 

Sapiens

Polymathematician
This does sound like a a lie to me.
John 7:6-10 NLT
Jesus replied, "Now is not the right time for me to go, but you can go anytime. [7] The world can't hate you, but it does hate me because I accuse it of doing evil. [8] You go on. I'm not going to this festival, because my time has not yet come." [9] After saying these things, Jesus remained in Galilee. [10] But after his brothers left for the festival, Jesus also went, though secretly, staying out of public view.
This proves Jesus is a sinner. Or does it not?
That is about as relevant as asking, "did Harry Potter lie?"
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I don't understand the corelation
many quote scripture.....book and verse

I refrain.....doing so only now and then

If you have the mind and heart to do so.....speak freely

in any case.....we all stand to answer for whatever we have pronounced
and in any case.....our plea of ignorance will not be allowed

if you speak as if you know
then you will be held to your speach
because you spoke as if you know better
 

Jon reign

Member
First off, I wasn't taught about Christianity, so I am reading the texts as is. I have to know what the words are actually inferring, or mean, to make sense of the religious ideas.
In other words, I am not interpreting the texts, from a denominational standpoint.
For example
John 1:18
Whether written in Aramaic, Hebrew, or Greek, originally, cannot be interpreted as literal, because it contradicts the Bible, if done so, and contradicts Jesus's own references to what we are supposed to believe.
The English Bible, for example the KJV, is mainly literalistic as to the Greek, however is also written in the manner in which we talk, [in English.
So, sometimes verses can be interpreted or studied, subjectively, do we know if this is common speech, literalistic word meaning from Greek, or Johns writing style, so forth.

Some of these verses are very important, because they may or may not imply an actual different god concept, so forth.
So, it can be very important, to know what is being said, specifically.
Since my theism, or god belief, is Biblical. John 1:18 cannot, for me, be read as literal word inference, as that contradicts the Bibles deific stance.

Hope that helps
That is a very good summary of how the original texts are evaluated. My question is, can you offer any specific insight on what biblical scholars have said about this verse? What is the original text, original language, syntax, grammar, literal, figurative, etc.
Also, what do scholars say about whether Jesus ever lied or not. Of All of the biblical analysis, are we here today the first to use this verse to assert a claim?
 
Top