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Featured Did Jesus lie?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by TruePathFinder, Aug 19, 2018.

  1. TruePathFinder

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    This does sound like a a lie to me.
    John 7:6-10 NLT
    Jesus replied, "Now is not the right time for me to go, but you can go anytime. [7] The world can't hate you, but it does hate me because I accuse it of doing evil. [8] You go on. I'm not going to this festival, because my time has not yet come." [9] After saying these things, Jesus remained in Galilee. [10] But after his brothers left for the festival, Jesus also went, though secretly, staying out of public view.
    This proves Jesus is a sinner. Or does it not?
     
  2. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    I don't like the NLT myself.

    In the KJV or YLT we read:

    6 Jesus, therefore, saith to them, `My time is not yet present, but your time is always ready;
    7 the world is not able to hate you, but me it doth hate, because I testify concerning it that its works are evil.
    8 Ye -- go ye up to this feast; I do not yet go up to this feast, because my time hath not yet been fulfilled;'
    9 and saying these things to them, he remained in Galilee.
    10 And when his brethren went up, then also he himself went up to the feast, not manifestly, but as in secret;

    I prefer the versions that say "I do not yet go up to this feast" There is no reason for me to doubt them. This is based off of the venerable and trusted Textus Receptus. The new translations use other sources that are not as trustworthy in my opinion. Their argument being that these documents are older. But just because something is older doesn't mean it's more trustworthy. After all it's still a so called copy. So a copy not the original source document. That means the Textus Receptus is more trustworthy because these other copies were not used likely for a very good reason.
     
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  3. TruePathFinder

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    Was this the kjv?
     
  4. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    That is the YLT. Young's Literal Translation. I like it because it's a very literal translation. However the KJV agrees with it; also using the word "yet".
     
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  5. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    I'm still using King James.....1960ed

    I won't let a small detail turn my attention
    obviously......He did not want to enter the feast with His followers
    that would draw attention

    as noted...some parties were already set about killing Him

    He was using a subtle approach
    nothing more
     
  6. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    They are really subtle aren't they? Reminds me of 2 Corinthians 11:14-15. :rolleyes:

    I really believe that satan has sown tares among the wheat.
     
  7. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    By definition, yes. The idea wasn't to misconceived as something g negative; but to keep his motives from his disciples for whatever reason.

    You can lie to keep a secret. Some call it white lies. Though, given its jesus he gets a break because lying as a sin is determined such by motive not by the lie itself.
     
  8. Jon reign

    Jon reign Member

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    Im curious brother, do you comprehend koine greek, latin or Aramaic?
     
  9. Jon reign

    Jon reign Member

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    Does the new testament offer any guidance on "permissible" lying as in the case of saving your own life?
     
  10. Jon reign

    Jon reign Member

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    No
     
  11. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    Very good verse, interesting.
     
  12. Jon reign

    Jon reign Member

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    Im having a hard time understanding why so much emphasis is being place on weighing slight grammatical nuances in the english translation to prove a point. I was just wondering if you could contextualize this in its original language
     
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  13. Jon reign

    Jon reign Member

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    In the verse being discussed "yet" seems to hold weight, can you offer a break down of this word in an original language
     
  14. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    not that I can recite.

    however.....when dealing someone who wants to kill you
    are they worthy of the information they are willing to kill you for?

    and if you surrender the information.....will they spare your life?

    seems to me...
    saving my own life by a lie is a form of self defense
    saving others by a lie is also defense

    I suppose scripture might hold me accountable later on....
    he who seeks to save his life shall lose it

    as if truth before all else?

    but I knee jerk back immediately
    dealing with someone seeking your death......
    no holds barred
     
  15. Jon reign

    Jon reign Member

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    I find it inappropriate for a believer to make rulings on an issue w/o scriptural authority. Thoughts?
     
  16. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    and the disciples complained......

    see that fellow....he teaches and performs miracles
    and he is not one of us
    Forbid him.....for he is not one of us

    and He said in reply.....Nay
    that He performs as we do.....he is with us
    not against us

    and of course.....when the Carpenter quoted scripture
    He quoted scripture of His time and of His people

    what we quote in this century......was not His to recite
     
  17. Jon reign

    Jon reign Member

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    I don't understand the corelation
     
  18. Sapiens

    Sapiens Polymathematician

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    That is about as relevant as asking, "did Harry Potter lie?"
     
  19. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    many quote scripture.....book and verse

    I refrain.....doing so only now and then

    If you have the mind and heart to do so.....speak freely

    in any case.....we all stand to answer for whatever we have pronounced
    and in any case.....our plea of ignorance will not be allowed

    if you speak as if you know
    then you will be held to your speach
    because you spoke as if you know better
     
  20. Jon reign

    Jon reign Member

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    That is a very good summary of how the original texts are evaluated. My question is, can you offer any specific insight on what biblical scholars have said about this verse? What is the original text, original language, syntax, grammar, literal, figurative, etc.
    Also, what do scholars say about whether Jesus ever lied or not. Of All of the biblical analysis, are we here today the first to use this verse to assert a claim?
     
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