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Did Jesus free us from the Law?

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
Well topic says it all.

The majority of those profressing faith in Jesus believe that He "freed" us from the Old Testament Laws, though there are dissenters. What do you believe about this. Did Jesus' coming make it where we don't have to follow the law?
 

TheGreaterGame

Active Member
It depends on which system of theology you adhere to. A dispensational theology or a covenantal theology. As I see it Christ fulfilled the ceremonial law of the OT but the Moral law is still binding.
 

Linus

Well-Known Member
I believe so. The book of Romans deals heavily with this subject and after studying it carefully, it should be clear that the answer to your question is a resounding "yes".
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
Ahh, but there is where the dissent raises Linus. Does Paul accurately portray Jesus' teacings? Of course when you take Paul into the matter we have to conclude that the NT "frees" is from the Law.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Matthew 5:17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. NIV

Paul or Jesus... the message is the same. The law has been fulfilled and we are no longer held to it.
 

James the Persian

Dreptcredincios Crestin
Mister Emu said:
Well topic says it all.

The majority of those profressing faith in Jesus believe that He "freed" us from the Old Testament Laws, though there are dissenters. What do you believe about this. Did Jesus' coming make it where we don't have to follow the law?
No He didn't 'free' us from the Law. For a start, unless you're of Jewish extraction, neither you nor your ancestors were ever under the Law to begin with, so it's rather difficult to be freed from it. Secondly, freeing us from the Law makes it sound like He abolished it and allowed us to do whatever we like. That's just plain wrong. The two commandments to love God with all our heart and to love our neighbours as ourselves contain and indeed go beyond the Law (at least if you are referring, as most Christians do, to the Decalogue. Levitical laws are a different matter and, as I said, gentiles have never been bound by them anyway). If anything Christ made the Law stricter by making us aware that internal thoughts and dispositions could be equally sinful to outward actions, so hate becomes equivalent to murder, lust to adultery etc. Now, I think some Protestants mean precisely what I just said when they say we're 'freed' from the Law, but I find the term misleading and dangerous.

James
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
I have learned so much since joining the forum - and part of that is knowing where to look for answers;

The Lord Jesus, by His own word, did not destroy the law of God; thus it is still operable. He did, however, alone of all men, obey it perfectly. He did "fulfill" all its demands and requirements, which no other man or woman could ever do. Consequently, He alone can redeem us from "the curse of the law" (Galatians 3:13).
Which supports all those who have said 'Yes':)
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
James,

Ok what I meant is, do you believe that the OT law still should be followed(such as Kosher and grooming), if not for gentiles than Jews.

Right now I am undecided, I do not believe it nessecary, that is for sure, but I am starting to think maybe we still *should* try to follow as best we can.

Michel, I have a question, do you consider yourself a follower of Christ? I am sorry, I know you probably have posted it before, but I am wondering at your beliefs :).
 

James the Persian

Dreptcredincios Crestin
Mister Emu said:
James,

Ok what I meant is, do you believe that the OT law still should be followed(such as Kosher and grooming), if not for gentiles than Jews.

Right now I am undecided, I do not believe it nessecary, that is for sure, but I am starting to think maybe we still *should* try to follow as best we can.

Michel, I have a question, do you consider yourself a follower of Christ? I am sorry, I know you probably have posted it before, but I am wondering at your beliefs :).
I thought that might be what you meant. No, I don't believe we should be keeping the OT laws. They are only applicable to people who are under the Old Covenant, not the New (so Jews, not Christians). If you want to try to keep them, I'm sure that's fine, and might act as a form of spiritual discipline, much like my frequent fasts, but it is not essential to Christianity. After all, the Judaizing tendency in the early Church was defeated at the Council in Jerusalem and as our Lord Himself said:

'Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.' - Matthew 15:11

James
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Peter's Dream

Acts 10:9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat."

14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."

15The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean." 16This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven. NIV

So we are OVIOUSLY not constrained by any food laws.

I would also suggest reading Galations 3, 4 & 5 for a cogent treatise on being set "Free" from the requirements of the law.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
NetDoc said:
Matthew 5:17 "... ; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
Paul or Jesus... the message is the same.
Unless, of course, it is not.

In fact, gMt 5:17 becomes a bit more interesting in light of gMt(Q) 5:18 and gLk(Q) 16:17. If one accepts that these verses derive from the 'sayings source' (i.e., Q) and were then used by the authors of gMt & gLk fully half a century later, it becomes somewhat more difficult to use them to justify some variant of replacement theology.

Given what little is known about the Nazarenes and Ebionites, it seems reasonable to infer that (1) the message was not at all the same, (2) Paul's Christianity was something increasingly alien and repugnant to the Jerusalem church and those closest to the Jesus tradition, (3) these Jews had every reason to label Paul's Christianity as heresy, and (4) history is written by the victor.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
I think you could be a Christian, even if you totaly disregard the old testament. Never-the-less it does give a background to Christianity. which shows the complete contrast to the teaching of Jesus. In most cases cases showing Love instead of revenge.

Terry
____________________________________________
Blessed are the pure of heart, they shall behold their God.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Let's put the whole paragraph out here Deut...

Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. NIV

Note what is highlighted and then note this passage...

John 19:28 Later, knowing that all was now completed, and so that the Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, "I am thirsty." 29 A jar of wine vinegar was there, so they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus' lips. 30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. NIV

No giant leap of faith here.

Now re-read Matthew 5:20. Jesus was indeed heretical and that's WHY they crucified him. Now consider this passage...

II Corinthians 3:1 Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, like some people, letters of recommendation to you or from you? 2 You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everybody. 3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

4 Such confidence as this is ours through Christ before God. 5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

7Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, 8will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! NIV
 

true blood

Active Member
I believe he "freed" us from the old school laws while setting up fresh ones and we're looking forward to laws to come. The changes had to be done in order to justify the forgiveness of breaking laws which is "sin". If that's not the case then it's lame he had to die. When the Christ returns and the Kingdom is set up will there be laws then? What is the point if "sin" is still around? Anyways some kind of transformation of the law happened during the time the Messiah walked the earth and will happen again.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
NetDoc said:
Let's put the whole paragraph out here Deut...
NetDoc, I never doubted your ability to cherry-pick verses in the service of doctrine. I simply find the duct-tape approach to apologetics a bit unseemly: it manages to hold everything together but the result tends to become dull, tacky, and eventually frayed.
 

CaptainXeroid

Following Christ
Luke Wolf said:
The few baptist churches I used to attend taught that the OT laws are to be followed.
Did they follow ALL the OT laws or most of them? I am not picking you, the Baptists, or anyone else, but I have encountered many Christians who say homosexuality is a sin because of Leviticus, yet they have no problem eating pork.:confused: IMHO,you either follow all the OT laws or you don't. PIcking and choosing is not a valid option.

In Matthew 2:36-40, Jesus 'spars with a lawyer:p, 36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" 37 And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets."

In Matthew 19:17-19, Jesus tells a young man 'If you would enter life, keep the commandments." 18 He said to him, "Which?" And Jesus said, "You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

In the 'words of instiutution', 1 Corinthians 11:25, Jesus tells his disciples "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.".

I think Jesus makes it clear that God has established a new covenant through him. When asked which commandments to follow, he makes no reference to the 'Hebrew Laws' but rather a New Testament of how God wants us to treat one another.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
CaptainXeroid said:
Did they follow ALL the OT laws or most of them? ... I have encountered many Christians who say homosexuality is a sin because of Leviticus, yet they have no problem eating pork. IMHO, you either follow all the OT laws or you don't. PIcking and choosing is not a valid option.
Well said.
 
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