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Did Jesus exist?

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
I was thinking along the lines of what particular verse you have in mind.
Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 is at the 'final phase' of bringing knowledge of God (His kingdom government) to the world.
Before world peace comes there has to be the global fulfillment of Matthew 24:14 and 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3.
Even people in remote areas now have access to Scripture in their own mother tongue or native language because modern technology has made possible rapid Bible translation into numerous languages.
After the Temple was destroyed in the year 70 by the Roman armies, the ' Temple ' is for now God's spiritual Temple.


Isaiah 43:5-6-

Do not fear, for I am with you;
I will bring your offspring from the east,
and from the west I will gather you;
6 I will say to the north, “Give them up,”
and to the south, “Do not withhold;
bring my sons from far away
and my daughters from the end of the earth—


Ezekiel 37:26-28-

I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; and I will blessthem and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary among them forevermore. My dwelling place shall be with them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Then the nations shall know that I the Lord sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary is among them forevermore.



Isaiah 2:4-

He shall judge between the nations,
and shall arbitrate for many peoples;
they shall beat their swords into plowshares,
and their spears into pruning hooks;
nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
neither shall they learn war any more.



Zechariah 14:9-


And the Lord will become king over all the earth; on that day the Lord will be one and his name one.


No, there doesn't need to be any fulfillment of 'NT' stuff, because that presupposes that Jesus is Messiah, which he's not. Also, if you'd read any of the book of Ezekiel, you'd know that the Temple is a real, material structure. The book of Ezekiel describes people bringing offerings to the future Temple and even gives the specific layout. The book goes into minute detail describing the Temple.
 

Repox

Truth Seeker
They are still secular sources and Not eyewitness accounts.

How do you separate secular from religious? Isn't the difference what religious leaders decided to use for their books? Before those writings became part of religious books they were historical documents used to describe Jesus. There is no historical evidence for those gospels authors being eyewitnesses of Jesus. Based on documents, the four names were created by church leaders after the gospels were discovered. I have posted references.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
How do you separate secular from religious? Isn't the difference what religious leaders decided to use for their books? Before those writings became part of religious books they were historical documents used to describe Jesus. There is no historical evidence for those gospels authors being eyewitnesses of Jesus. Based on documents, the four names were created by church leaders after the gospels were discovered. I have posted references.

Those references are Not from eyewitness accounts from the time of Christ.
God is Author according to 2 Timothy 3:16-17.
Matthew was a disciple of Jesus and so forth......according to Scripture, Not some later clergymen.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Isaiah 43:5-6-
Do not fear, for I am with you;
I will bring your offspring from the east,
and from the west I will gather you;
6 I will say to the north, “Give them up,”
and to the south, “Do not withhold;
bring my sons from far away
and my daughters from the end of the earth—

Ezekiel 37:26-28-
I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; and I will blessthem and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary among them forevermore. My dwelling place shall be with them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Then the nations shall know that I the Lord sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary is among them forevermore.
Isaiah 2:4-
He shall judge between the nations,
and shall arbitrate for many peoples;
they shall beat their swords into plowshares,
and their spears into pruning hooks;
nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
neither shall they learn war any more.

Zechariah 14:9-
And the Lord will become king over all the earth; on that day the Lord will be one and his name one.
No, there doesn't need to be any fulfillment of 'NT' stuff, because that presupposes that Jesus is Messiah, which he's not. Also, if you'd read any of the book of Ezekiel, you'd know that the Temple is a real, material structure. The book of Ezekiel describes people bringing offerings to the future Temple and even gives the specific layout. The book goes into minute detail describing the Temple.

Yes, the temple of Ezekiel 8:5-18 was a real temple - and the detestable things done in the temple.
( including ' sun ' worship )

I find Ezekiel 37 is about the vision of the valley of dry bones - verses 1-14
Two sticks to be joined together at verses 15-28
One nation under one king at verse 22
Eternal covenant of peace at verse 26

At Ezekiel 40 to Israel in a vision at verses 1-2
Ezekiel sees a visionary temple at Ezekiel 40:3-4
(the courtyards and gates at verses 5-47)
(the outer east gate at verses 6-16)
(the outer courtyard at verses 17-26 besides other gates)
(the inner courtyard and gates at verses 27-37)
(the rooms for temple service at verses 38-46)
(the altar at verse 47)
(the porch of the temple at verses 48-49)
 

Repox

Truth Seeker
Those references are Not from eyewitness accounts from the time of Christ.
God is Author according to 2 Timothy 3:16-17.
Matthew was a disciple of Jesus and so forth......according to Scripture, Not some later clergymen.
Post historical references for the four gospel authors being eyewitnesses. Church leaders proclamation don't count, they made up a lot of stories about Jesus. My favorite saying is "Everyone lies, some more than others."
 

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
Post historical references for the four gospel authors being eyewitnesses. Church leaders proclamation don't count, they made up a lot of stories about Jesus. My favorite saying is "Everyone lies, some more than others."

Not interested. Nothing I say will convince you. If you don't believe the gospels, that's your problem, not mine.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Post historical references for the four gospel authors being eyewitnesses. Church leaders proclamation don't count, they made up a lot of stories about Jesus. My favorite saying is "Everyone lies, some more than others."

Lies are either: on purpose or Not, intentional or Not, premeditated or Not, willful or Not, by accident or Not.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Omniscience---All knowing.

I'll say that God can be All knowing "IF" He chose to do so.
Because God gifted mankind with free-will choices shows there are things God chooses Not to know.
We could say God owns everything, but yet God chose to gift Earth to us according to Psalms 115:16.
Since God does Not own our free-will choices, then God is Not All knowing.
God knows the happy ending of Revelation 22:2, but as to 'who' will be part of that happy time is yet unknown.
The only thing we can give God is our obeying His Golden Rule and Jesus' New commandment of John 13:34-35 to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has.
 

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
I'll say that God can be All knowing "IF" He chose to do so.
Because God gifted mankind with free-will choices shows there are things God chooses Not to know.
We could say God owns everything, but yet God chose to gift Earth to us according to Psalms 115:16.
Since God does Not own our free-will choices, then God is Not All knowing.
God knows the happy ending of Revelation 22:2, but as to 'who' will be part of that happy time is yet unknown.

Omniscience means God know everthing that will happen. He knows what choices we will make. He knows what we need befor we pray for it(mT 6:8)


The only thing we can give God is our obeying His Golden Rule and Jesus' New commandment of John 13:34-35 to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has.

Agreed
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Omniscience means God know everthing that will happen. He knows what choices we will make. He knows what we need before we pray for it(mT 6:8)
Agreed

Yes, even under trying circumstances God does know what we need, and God promised to send us the needed spiritual help when needed. - Luke 11:13 B.

Jesus taught that time and un-expected events happen to people according to Luke 13:2-5
Those people killed by the falling tower were simply at the wrong place, wrong time.
King Solomon, known for his wisdom, also wrote un-expected things happen to us at Ecclesiastes 9:11.
If a building or tower was faulty then a collapse was due to human faultiness, and Not that God foresaw that.
Human error is Not God error, rather it's humans disobeying the Golden Rule.
None of which is due to ominscience.
 

Repox

Truth Seeker
Not interested. Nothing I say will convince you. If you don't believe the gospels, that's your problem, not mine.
Hardly anyone does research. Just because it is written with claims doesn't mean it is true. Most people lie, you have to verify facts with historical documents.
 

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
Hardly anyone does research. Just because it is written with claims doesn't mean it is true.

True enough but that is not evidence it is not true. Actually no one can prove/disprove spiritual concepts. They must be accepted by faith alone.

Most people lie, you have to verify facts with historical documents.

Some who write historical document also lie and or embellish what they write to try and support a particular point of view.
 

Repox

Truth Seeker

So, how to you verify what is written? All we have are historical documents, otherwise, there is no way to verify stories.
 
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