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Did Jesus ever claim to be God?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Montalban, May 10, 2005.

  1. Montalban

    Montalban Member

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    Lloyd, some very intersting remarks. vbmenu_register
     
  2. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    If you look at the bibleGateway.com and read the footnotes in many bibles it tells us that it is not right.
     
  3. Montalban

    Montalban Member

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    Are you asking me to go research this for myself to prove what you say is true?
     
  4. Quoth The Raven

    Quoth The Raven Half Arsed Muse

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    No, she's answering your question as to why she thinks it's true. She's given you reference. I don't imagine she cares either way if you bother to look it up yourself.
     
  5. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    The verse in Philippians 2:6 does it for me...

    Who in {the} form of God subsisting, not robbery thought {it} to be equal with God, Literal Bible

    The Greek word for "form" was morphe which is pretty strong. Jesus did not think it "robbery" to be equal to God, since he already IS equal to God.

    John 10:30 I and the Father are one." NIV

    There is no equivocating here.

    BTW Deut... Unfortunately the hate between the Christians and the Jews was way lopsided in the first Century. There was way more violence against the Christians back then, including stonings and constant disruptions. It is quite narrow minded to continually point out the faults of the Christians and hold the Jews of the time up as blameless. What makes this so heinous is that this was ethnically Jew against Jew. As for the "Judaizers", they should have minded their own business. They were intent on abolishing this "new sect spoken everywhere against". Hopefully you won't overlook their intolerance in your quest to discredit all that is Christian.

    Bigotry, no matter what your ethnicity is just plain WRONG.

    Intolerance, no matter what your faith is just plain WRONG.
     
  6. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    John​
    10:30:WHEN JESUS SAID I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE ,HE MEANT A ONENESS OF PURPOSEAT JOHN 17;21-22 JESUS PRAYED REGARDING HIS FOLLOWERS THAT THEY MAY ALL BE ONE THEN HE ADDED THAT THEY MAY BE ONE EVEN AS WE ARE ONE,OBVIOUSLY JESUS DISCIPLESDO NOT ALL BECOME PART OF THE TRINITY , BUT THEY SHARE A ONONESS OF PURPOSEWITH THE FATHER AND JESUS







     
  7. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    Regarding JOHN 10; 38
    But if I am doing them, even though YOU do not believe me, believe the works, in order that YOU may come to know and may continue knowing that the Father is in union with me and I am in union with the Father....... this is refering to a unity of purpose inline with the rest of the scriptures.such as john 17;21

    in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth

     
  8. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Now you are putting words in his mouth. I am not that bold!
     
  9. Lloyd

    Lloyd Member

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    That's the entire purpose of theology. As an academic discipline it originated more or less over this exact question. The project of theology has always been to put words in the mouth of Jesus and the New Testament writers. The challenge then is to just be reasonable in doing so. In this case it's pretty reasonable....or atleast I think so.
     
  10. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Which is why I am not a theologist.
     
  11. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    Isa 12:2 Behold, God is my salvation(3444Yeshua), I will trust and not be afraid; ‘For YAH, the LORD, is my strength and song; He also has become my salvation(3444Yeshua).’"
    God is our salvation, Jesus is our salvation, but never is salvation, our God
    But never in any scripture, (Jesus is God)! Never, God could have said, if he wanted you believe Jesus is God, but he didn't. You must put words in God's mouth!
     
  12. Mr Spinkles

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    Well if this story is historical, it seems pretty clear i.m.o. that Jesus did claim to be God (or at least the Son of God).

    The question is, on what grounds do we view this story as historical? If the author (authors?) of Matthew would fabricate a story about Jesus riding into Jerusalem on a donkey and a colt simultaneously, how do we know this story wasn't fabricated as well?
     
  13. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    That statement is either pathetically paranoid or despicably dishonest.
     
  14. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Or possibly you present yourself in a manner that is inconsistent with your intent or beliefs?
     
  15. ThisShouldMakeSense

    ThisShouldMakeSense Active Member

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    (Sorry May, for butting in, I couldn't resist!)

    This is how the KJ version reads.

    1 John 5:7-8*(King James Version)

    7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

    This is how some other versions read. Note the footnotes...
    1 John 5:7-8*(New International Version)

    7For there are three that testify: 8the[a] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

    Footnotes:
    1 John 5:8 Late manuscripts of the Vulgate testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. 8 And there are three that testify on earth: the (not found in any Greek manuscript before the sixteenth century)


    New Living Translation (NLT)

    7So we have these three witnesses[a]-- 8the Spirit, the water, and the blood--and all three agree.

    Footnotes:
    1 John 5:7 Some very late manuscripts add in heaven--the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. And we have three witnesses on earth.


    so it isn't found in any early manuscripts and is therefore considered to be an addition made along the way. as it is spurious, it isn't included in more accurate translations. Question your teacher/priest/vicar etc. about it, see what he says.
    (Something to think about. The KJ version is one of the most inaccurate versions of the Bible. it is considered one of the best by many, however it has removed God's personal name almost 7000 times, for instance, as have many, many others, so if it did that, what else did it do?)
     
  16. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    thats ok , i dont mind , that is correct , its not found in the older manuscripts as you say . i am all for getting back to the pure word of God without the trappings of manmade doctrine.
     
  17. ThisShouldMakeSense

    ThisShouldMakeSense Active Member

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    Phew, i'm glad you don't mind...
     
  18. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Veteran Member

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    Jesus proclaimed His divinity a number of times. Sadly to list them means that those who don't believe will get into endless disputations which slowly lead one away from the original subject. For those who believe there is no necsesity for amplification.

    If you are actually searching for the truth digest Matt. 22:43-45 or explain for yourself the behavior of the high priest in Matt. 26:65
     
  19. Ziroc

    Ziroc Member

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    How can God be sent and how in the world can one claim that he is God when he cannot do anything at his will?

    John 5:30 "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."

    Jesus himself claimed that he was sent as a messenger by God.
     
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