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Featured Did Jesus die and rise from the dead?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by whirlingmerc, Apr 21, 2019.

  1. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Active Member

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    Except the NT wasn't even written when Paul wrote that.
     
  2. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Perhaps, and shown to be a fraud time after time. Some people have crazy beliefs that they will not drop.
     
  3. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    You do at best that that could only refer to the Old Testament and even that does not claim that it is accurate or true.
     
  4. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Studying an artifact will never prove such a shroud because as 2 Corinthians 5:7 says we walk by faith Not by sight.
    This is why Jesus said his followers would worship his God with ' spirit ' and ' truth ' at John 4:23-24.
    It would be a lively spirited worship based on Scripture truth and Not anything else.
     
  5. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Jesus used different materialized bodies to appear to his disciples. That is why they did Not at first recognize the resurrected Jesus.
    Mary mistook the resurrected Jesus as a gardener.
    The soldier guards saw No resurrected Jesus come out.
    Jesus was Not recognized on the road - Matthew 28:8-10; Luke 24:13-43; John 21:1-23
    Thus, the post-resurrection appearance was provided for doubting Thomas.
    Jesus appeared to Thomas while Thomas was in a locked room as per John 20:19; John 20:26.
    A physically resurrected person does Not walk through closed doors.
     
  6. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Studying it can show it to be a fraud. But the fact that the shroud of Turin is a fraud does not refute the Jesus story. Why people put so much faith in a known fraud is beyond me.
     
    #166 Subduction Zone, Apr 22, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  7. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Active Member

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    Just more magical thinking.
     
  8. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    What is recorded in Scripture is what the Bible really teaches and what we can learn from the Bible.
    By disagreeing with what is written does Not automatically make what is written as wrong.
     
  9. lukethethird

    lukethethird Active Member

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    The point is that you believe what you are told to believe, no thinking required.
     
  10. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Blah blah, AND blah.
     
  11. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    What nonsense. The US constitution, the Great Pyramid
    and some few other things are artifacts that have gotten
    far far more study.

    ONE reason is they wont let anyone study the freakin' "shroud".

    You ever notice that "god" is not into giving proof, yet you
    are offering this as posdible proof?

    If ya got proof, of what use is faith?

    You guys are doing idolatry, another thing "god"
    is said to, like, eschew.

    If you take any of this god stuff seriously, you
    may want to consider what you are doing.

    And dont tell me it is not idol worship unless you
    would wipe your car with it.

    It is very ugly, I would burn it.
     
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  12. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    A reason. I did not say that was the only reason. There were living eyewitnesses at the time friendly and not so friendly and they could have refuted the claims such as the viel of the temple tearing, earthquakes, sun going dark as Jesus died.

    Not to mention that one would not make up a story in the fashion presented. The first witnesses would not have been women if it were made up. The apostles would not have been cast in such a bad light, hiding.
     
  13. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    And of COURSE the scrip is going to toot its own horn.
    What "sacred" writing does not?
     
  14. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    That story was not written until more than a generation after it supposedly happened. Eyewitnesses would have been in short supply. In fact I do not know of any of the New Testament claims about Jesus that are eyewitness accounts.
     
  15. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    One would wonder who would make an image like the shroud many centuries ago. It's a negative.

    While I do not look at such as a main reason to believe I would not discount it as being not meaningful. It seems unlikely to me a forger in the ancient world would create something like a photographic negative.

    Your thoughts on that Audie?
     
  16. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    I know, it is terribly circular reasoning.

    The Harry Potter books are true because they say that they are true.
     
  17. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Not quite. It is similar to a negative.
     
  18. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    So you say.
    So do you believe the 8 witnesses to the gold plates?
    I mean, who would make up such a story, get with others
    to swear before god, to a lie?

    No fair just making something up, now.
     
  19. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    I prefer 'Taste and see that the Lord is good!"

    but the preponderance of scholars do believe Jesus died, the tomb became empty and the apostles were convinced Jesus rose
     
  20. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    You are only partially right. The preponderance of scholars believe that Jesus died.
     
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