1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Did Jesus die and rise from the dead?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by whirlingmerc, Apr 21, 2019.

  1. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    5,717
    Ratings:
    +1,044
    Religion:
    Christian
    His heart wasn´t beating, he wasn´t breathing , he had no blood pressure, his body temp, was way below the temp that causes death, his brain had no oxygen for a long period of time.

    There is no completely about it, you are either dead or you are alive.
     
  2. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    5,717
    Ratings:
    +1,044
    Religion:
    Christian
    How about self consciousness, does it depend upon the senses ? Does it exist ?
     
  3. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    7,411
    Ratings:
    +1,762
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Yes, Jesus said that...

    John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

    1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.


    So why all the fuss about the physical body of Jesus rising from the grave? :confused:
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  4. Left Coast

    Left Coast Active Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2019
    Messages:
    599
    Ratings:
    +442
    Religion:
    None
    Same answer.
     
  5. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2019
    Messages:
    646
    Ratings:
    +367
    Religion:
    agnostic
    Why do you think the NT is reliable evidence?
     
  6. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    3,573
    Ratings:
    +3,371
    Religion:
    None, a humanist who doesn't even worship humans
    So what makes you suppose there's something mystical when other examples of 12 and 24...also created by human beings...show up?
     
  7. nightshadetwine

    nightshadetwine New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2019
    Messages:
    10
    Ratings:
    +6
    Oh, I see what you're saying. I don't think there's necessarily anything mystical about it. I just think the number twelve occurs in myths a lot because of it's significance to these cultures. Twelve hours of the day and night, twelve months, twelve signs of the zodiac, etc. I think it became a number that had meaning to (some)ancient cultures. I think the stories of the sun god going through the twelve hours of the night, Jesus and the twelve disciples, Hercules and his twelve labors, Horus and Mithras surrounded by the twelve signs of the zodiac, etc. are telling similar stories that share similar motifs.

    Just to be clear, I don't think any of this has anything to do with Jesus actually rising from the dead. I'm not a Christian and don't take the bible literally. I think a lot of it is allegorical.
     
  8. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    6,462
    Ratings:
    +1,181
    People don't, but God did in the Person of Jesus Christ.
     
  9. Left Coast

    Left Coast Active Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2019
    Messages:
    599
    Ratings:
    +442
    Religion:
    None
    We all understand that's the claim. But the point is you need to demonstrate that to be true.
     
  10. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    6,462
    Ratings:
    +1,181
    I think Jesus did a great job Himself demonstrating the reality of His resurrection.
     
  11. Left Coast

    Left Coast Active Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2019
    Messages:
    599
    Ratings:
    +442
    Religion:
    None
    How did you come to that conclusion?

    Before you quote the Bible, we want to know how you concluded that the Bible's claims about Jesus are true.
     
  12. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    6,462
    Ratings:
    +1,181
    Why shouldn't the resurrection of Christ be true? Many prophecies were fulfilled in detail by the birth, life, and death of Jesus, so why not the resurrection? There also were many witnesses who saw Him alive after the cross, including the disciples who had their lives completely turned around after seeing Him alive again and never recanted even though most eventually faced death for their testimony. Why would they suffer and die for something if they knew it was no more than a lie?
     
  13. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    23,795
    Ratings:
    +13,117
    Religion:
    Atheist
    No. That is not the case. Most of the verses cited were not prophecies in the first place. They were quote mined verses from the Old Testament, and that includes the virgin birth myth. That was a combination of a mistranslation and a non-prophecy.

    Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies which is why so many Jews rejected him.
     
    #93 Subduction Zone, Apr 22, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  14. Left Coast

    Left Coast Active Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2019
    Messages:
    599
    Ratings:
    +442
    Religion:
    None
    Because that's not how human biology works. I would think that would be obvious. Do you believe every resurrection claim you come across?

    You seem to be just assuming the claims about Jesus in the New Testament are true. My point is, how the heck do you know that? How do you know any of that stuff actually occurred in history?

    They didn't have to be lying. Humans across many cultures and throughout history have been willing to die for honestly misguided reasons.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  15. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    6,462
    Ratings:
    +1,181
    That is your opinion, which you are free to have, but it is not my perspective. And the fact is that many Jews did accept Jesus Christ and believed He was the promised Messiah. It was mainly the religious leaders who did not want their power threatened who rejected Him and persecuted those first Jewish believers.

    "Prophecy is absolutely unique to the Bible, being found in no other religious scriptures (though some contain false prophecies). Israel's prophets offered hundreds of prophecies concerning the promised Messiah so that He could be identified beyond question when He came as a humble, virgin-born child. After the resurrection, the apostles preached the gospel to everyone and everywhere, as Christ had commanded them. The two primary pieces of evidence were: 1) their own personal sworn testimony as eyewitnesses of what Christ taught and did (including His crucifixion and resurrection), though it cost them their lives as martyrs for refusing to ecumenically deny the truth they knew; and 2) the many prophecies in Scripture given centuries in advance, which were fulfilled to the letter in the life, death, and resurrection of Christ."
    Prophecy
     
  16. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    23,795
    Ratings:
    +13,117
    Religion:
    Atheist
    It is fact. Let's go over the supposed prophecies one at a time. And your source lied to you. It is the job of Christian apologists to lie about the Bible.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  17. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    23,795
    Ratings:
    +13,117
    Religion:
    Atheist

    How do you know that? There are not even reliable records of eyewitnesses, one of the weakest forms of evidence.
     
  18. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    6,462
    Ratings:
    +1,181
    I believe Jesus alone as fully human/fully God alone had the power to resurrect. Why should I doubt that the Creator of heaven and earth could rise from the dead? the scriptures are consistent and based in historical context and I find them to be reliable.

    Sure, many humans have been willing to die for something they honestly believed in, but the difference is that the disciples of Jesus not only believed Jesus was dead, they KNEW He was dead because they saw Him die. My point is it was only seeing Him alive that changed their whole lives, understanding, and caused them to be willing to suffer and die because they knew He had risen from the grave.
     
  19. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    6,462
    Ratings:
    +1,181
    I am not going over anything more tonight. I've had a full, busy day and am tired and going to bed. Have a good night and oh yeah....

    He is Risen!
     
  20. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    7,411
    Ratings:
    +1,762
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    If you go over those one at a time, you will discover that all the prophecies for the coming of Messiah the Jews were waiting for were fulfilled by Baha'u'llah. Their exact fulfillment is explained in Thief in the Night by William Sears.
     
Loading...