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Featured Did Jesus die and rise from the dead?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by whirlingmerc, Apr 21, 2019.

  1. Prince Mthembu

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    I'm going to refer you to non-Christian sources since you refer to most Christian as "apologists"

    See below

    "Roman Historians: Early Roman historians wrote primarily of events and people important to their empire. Since Jesus wasn’t of immediate importance to the political or military affairs of Rome, very little Roman history referenced him. However, two important Roman historians, Tacitus and Suetonius, do acknowledge Jesus as a real person.

    Tacitus (a.d. 55-120), the greatest early Roman historian, wrote that Christus (Greek for Christ) had lived during the reign of Tiberius and “suffered under Pontius Pilate, that Jesus’ teachings had already spread to Rome; and that Christians were considered criminals and tortured in a variety of ways, including crucifixion.”[18]

    Suetonius (a.d. 69-130) wrote of “Chrestus” as an instigator. Most scholars believe this is a reference to Christ. Suetonius also wrote of Christians having been persecuted by Nero in a.d. 64.[19]

    Roman Officials: Christians were considered enemies of Rome because of their worship of Jesus as Lord rather than Caesar. The following Roman government officials, including two Caesars, wrote letters from that perspective, mentioning Jesus and early Christian origins.[20]

    Pliny the Younger was an imperial magistrate under Emperor Trajan. In a.d. 112, Pliny wrote to Trajan of his attempts to force Christians to renounce Christ, whom they “worshiped as a god.”

    Emperor Trajan (a.d. 56-117) wrote letters mentioning Jesus and early Christian origins.

    Emperor Hadrian (a.d. 76-136) wrote about Christians as followers of Jesus.

    Pagan Sources: Several early pagan writers briefly mention Jesus or Christians prior to the end of the second century. These include Thallus, Phlegon, Mara Bar-Serapion and Lucian of Samosate.[21] Thallus’ remarks about Jesus were written in a.d. 52, about twenty years after Christ.

    In total, nine early non-Christian secular writers mention Jesus as a real person within 150 years of his death. Interestingly, that is the same number of secular writers who mention Tiberius Caesar, the Roman emperor during Jesus’ time. If we were to consider Christian and non-Christian sources, there are forty-two who mention Jesus, compared to just ten for Tiberius"

    Source y-jesus.com

    I also would've shared of Josephus but you already rejected him.
     
  2. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    That was my point at the start. You need better standards. Tell me, how do you know that your God is the right God?
     
  3. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Yes, there is weak evidence that there was a man name Jesus and that he had a following. Nothing more. But you need to be careful with your sources. Some of them show signs of being tampered with by Christians after the fact. Claims of martyrdom are very dubious. Once again, try to find sources by actual historians. Not by apologists. They will hang on to the cases that were shown to be forgeries.
     
  4. Prince Mthembu

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    The whole Bible has to be false for me to refute it because My knowledge of it is that it's one unified word from start to finish. Whoever is opinionated by concluding it to be contradictory is yet to discover more of its revelation for not only does it mention past and present it also has foreknowledge in it. You seem to have more knowledge of the Bible than me, what has been proven to be wrong in it?

    How would I not understand reality when I'm living in it everyday?
     
  5. Prince Mthembu

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    Or even the Bible when it's the one which pointed me Christ?
     
  6. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    It appears that you are stating that your belief is irrational.. Why do you think the entire Bible has to be false? We know parts of it are false and parts of it are correct. Where does not leave your beliefs? And Genesis was the first book to be refuted. The Flood myth was the first one shown not to be true since such a flood would leave massive evidence and there is no evidence for it at all. There are only very very bad misinterpretations of evidence by believers. Biology showed the Garden of Eden story to be myth. Linguists showed that the tower of Babel was myth. the list goes on and on. And I have not even touched the failed prophecies. Meanwhile we do know that many of the names in the Bible are correct. That locations are often correct. Like most religious works parts are true and parts are myth.
     
  7. Prince Mthembu

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    That's because He's just in His course; creating all into existence and not abandoning any until the end. Having created all, appointed human His representative authority on this planet and with discretion granted human freewill to see if he loves Him by obeying His voice, nevertheless human out of ignorance rebelled but by His faithfulness committed to the good purpose He originally intended for human by guiding him back to His own perfect will with all patience and gentleness. Only for man to realise His(God's) will must prevail over man's will out of the freewill that He gave man and that must be done willingly by man in total surrender of his being.

    Justice requiring man a sentence for transgression He paid ransom by pouring out all His worth that even justice can bear witness as He judges as the only righteous One who has all the authority to exterminate all vanity. Although He's King of the universe He took a form of a servant that whoever might believe and trust in Him to be true might follow Him to His everlasting Kingdom. That's how I know my God is the One True God for though He's so incomprehensible He still loves me as a friend to die for, though He's so holy that none can approach Him He still draws me closer and closer as family and though He's so righteous that none can argue He is not ashamed to call me by His own famous and reputable name, even though I'm lowly He says as He is so am I.

    I'm sorry but I just don't know no other God than this who goes by the name Yahweh. The I am that I am, God of the living, the holy and eternal One of Israel.

    And the only standard is truth for it is accurate. There's no better standard than the truth, the way and the life.
     
  8. Prince Mthembu

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    Tacitus on Christ - Wikipedia
    Suetonius on Christians - Wikipedia
    Pliny the Younger on Christians - Wikipedia
    Pliny and Trajan on the Christians
    Persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire - Wikipedia


    Now cite all your sources that proves forgery

    You say Christ was our invention so you reckon with that"weak evidence" I've provided that even the Roman emperors and historians were in on it compromised by the less influencial early Christian whom they persecuted and tortured to denounce the invention?

    The kingdom of God is upon you!

    Repent
     
  9. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Then who was it, please?
    I understand that it was Jesus who had survived the death on the Cross and now had plans to go out of Judea and the Roman dominated area. Right, please?

    Regards
     
  10. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Could have been anyone who happened to do things in a way that seemed like Jesus or said things in a manner that Jesus said.

    No, of course not. People don't come back from the dead after three days.
     
  11. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    "People don't come back from the dead after three days."

    I agree with one, Jonah was not dead in the belly of the fish, he was in near-dead position there for three day and three nights, so Jesus was also in near-dead position in the tomb, and with the treatment of so much unusual quantity of Aloe and Myrrh by his friends, he was in a position to walk up to Galilee and from there Jesus set forth going up the hills full with clouds and went on the other side the hill towards his destination. Right, please? The clues are there very much in the NT Bible.

    Regards
     
  12. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Jonah is a teaching story. It is not historical.

    Jesus died. He did not resurrect. He was not in a coma for three days.
     
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  13. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

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    Logic and the historical evidence say he did resurrect. Challenge yourself to read the evidence for it.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. samtonga43

    samtonga43 Member

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    Great book.
     
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  15. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Jesus did not die on the Cross, so ,there is no case of Jesus' resurrection.

    Regards
     
  16. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    What’s the historical evidence? There’s mythic evidence, anecdotal evidence, legendary evidence. Historic evidence would require eyewitness testimony with 3rd party corroboration. There were no eyewitnesses.
     
  17. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    ... Because all reputable, scholastic works include “Free, Interactive, CD Game!” ...
     
  18. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    There is absolutely 0 evidence — historic, anecdotal or otherwise — to support such a statement.
     
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  19. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

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    You're not convincing.
     
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  20. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense. Do your homework.
     
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