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Featured Did Jesus die and rise from the dead?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by whirlingmerc, Apr 21, 2019.

  1. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, what?

    We were talking about your supposed prophecy and the logistics of it. But you ignored it.
     
  2. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

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    You automatically kick everything to the curb. But here's one you can't make go away:

    “‘In that day,’ declares the Sovereign Lord, ‘I will make the sun go down at noon and darken the earth in broad daylight….I will make that time like mourning for an only son, and the end of it like a bitter day.'” (Amos 8:9-10)

    “From the sixth hour until the ninth hour darkness came over all the land.” Matthew 27:45

    Just as the “Star of Bethlehem” marked the birth of Christ, so now God brought forth another celestial miracle to pronounce His death. This prophecy is one of those that is beyond the control of mortal man, and as such it dispels the theory that Christ could have manipulated events so as to make it appear that He was the Messiah. But is there any evidence that this really occurred? Did the sun go dark at noonday? The following extra-Biblical confirmations provide the answer:

    Concerning the Samaritan-born historian Thallus, circa 52 A.D: (The writings of Thallus no longer exist, yet were alluded to by the historian Julius Africanus, as follows): “Thallus, in the third book of his histories, explains away this darkness as an eclipse of the sun – unreasonably, as it seems to me – unreasonably, of course, because a solar eclipse could not take place at the time of a full moon, and it was at the season of the Paschal full moon that Christ died.”

    Likewise, Africanus wrote concerning the writings of another first century historian by the name of Phlegon: “….during the time of Tiberius Caesar an eclipse of the sun occurred during the full moon.”

    Phlegon is also mentioned by the historian Origen in his work, “Contra Celsum,” book 2, sections 14, 39, and 59: “Phlegon mentioned the eclipse that took place during the crucifixion of the Lord Christ….and this is shown by the historical account itself of Tiberius Caesar.” Apparently at one time there were historical accounts of the strange darkness that came over the land that were kept in the official archives of Tiberius Caesar, though they are likely lost to history.

    Finally, the 2nd century Roman born jurist and theologian Tertullian referred to a Roman archives report of an “unexplained darkness that took place during the reign of Tiberius Caesar, as can be seen in the archives of Pontius Pilate.”

    The darkness spoken of in the book of Matthew occurred between noon and three P.M. in the afternoon (from the sixth to the ninth hours, as the Jews were noted as referring to the sixth and the ninth hours of daylight). Note that a solar eclipse will take less than an hour to complete, and a total solar eclipse lasts just a few minutes. This, coupled with the fact that a solar eclipse cannot occur during a full moon (the moon would be on the ‘other’ side of the earth), provides further evidence that what occurred was something other than an eclipse of the sun. Just what it was no one can say for sure, just that from recorded historical sources there was a strange darkness during the time of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.

    Documenting A Miracle
     
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  3. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Wrong, you have not done your homework. You go to unreliable sources and stop there. That is not doing your homework.

    The fact is that there is a clearer word for virgin, the word used only means "young maiden" and that says nothing about whether that woman was a virgin or not. If you read the supposed prophecy in context it is clearly not about Jesus. Some Christians, not all, believe this because they took one verse out of context. That is quote mining. It is not a valid way to use the Bible. I can prove that the Bible says twelve different times "there is no God". Does that mean that the Bible denies God's existence? Of course not, because I can do so only by quoting out of context. That is what is being done with the so called virgin birth prophecy. It is out of context. It is a mistranslation. It fails on two levels and you have no answer to those facts.
     
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  4. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    That is a defensive verse written by someone that realized that much of the Bible was nonsense and that one has to lie to oneself to believe the Bible. Don't worry, other religions have the same sort of verses. This is not a flaw that only the Bible has.
     
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  5. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Well-Known Member

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    No, that's you. You are projecting.

    Why are you changing the subject now? You never even replied to the other one. Sorry but I'm not interested in any Gish Gallops.


    I don't know what this is supposed to be, or why you've changed the subject.
     
  6. Prince Mthembu

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    Still, all these controversies proves not His existence to you?
     
  7. Prince Mthembu

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    I'm pointing to things a natural man can relate to because things of the spirit are not for the carnal mind. My rationale is that you can't deny Jesus' place in history - it's perplexing that you truly don't recognize that such a story wouldn't survive a decade if it weren't true besides you really don't sound like you did much of your homework on Jesus but just took what made sense to you. Presumably, you're murdering me on the same slate that I made no research about the truth. I have tested and tried Jesus He is the truth Mr Sub. Have made any effort in finding out about the most controversial being there ever was since the beginning of time? There's just no way to deny that something is going on behind that veil and I'm not trying to convince you but rather persuade you to seek truth of life to awaken you that most of what you've been fed is a lie. If all the presented evidence is not enough then I have one which requires patience as it's inevitable and that is time but unfortunately then will be too late for anyone who believed not in righteousness and justice.
     
  8. Prince Mthembu

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    So you aren't ascertaining His death? were you just passing remarks?
     
  9. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Well-Known Member

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    Using this logic, all religions with texts have to be true stories, as long as they've been around for more than a decade.
    You might want to re-think that line of reasoning.
     
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  10. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    How would they? They are evidence that a man named Jesus existed at best.
     
  11. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    First off let's drop this "natural man" and "carnal mind" nonsense. That is an attempt to insult.

    And many stories that are not true last far longer than that. Look at the myths of Genesis from your own Bible.
     
  12. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    "Mary was a virgin for all of her life"

    James was brother of Jesus, so Mary was not a virgin for all her life.

    Regards
     
  13. lukethethird

    lukethethird Active Member

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    The author of Mark may have had an itinerant preacher in mind when he wrote his gospel but we don't know that his name was Jesus. He could have got that name from Paul and it's a safe bet that Paul's Jesus was a heavenly entity, one that was to come to earth in Paul's lifetime.
     
  14. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Not according to Mark...
     
  15. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Mary was likely not even a Virgin before Jesus was born.
     
  16. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Crossan goes on to say that Jesus body was likely thrown to the dogs...
     
  17. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    We know this due to literary scholarship.
     
  18. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Some still believe that Mary remained a virgin. They will make excuses for James. He was the son of Joseph from an earlier marriage, he was not his blood brother,and who knows what else. That was why I asked, but received no answer.
     
  19. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    It exists, but not as factual documents, rather stories and theological letters. The evidence simply is not factual.
     
  20. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    It is a wrong notion that Mary was begotten by the Christian-God. Mary was not a wife unto G-d.

    Regards
     
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