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Featured Did Jesus die and rise from the dead?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by whirlingmerc, Apr 21, 2019.

  1. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Wrong again. Your beliefs are artificial. They are a product of your brain. Now you are only demonstrating that you refuse to reason rationally. That was the point of my question. It quickly tells us if one is talking to a person that can reason or not.

    And I do not have faith. That is your failing not mine.
     
  2. KelseyR

    KelseyR The eternal optimist!

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    If you reread my statement you will see that I said "if he existed". Please pay more attention before questioning the worth of what I say.
     
  3. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

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    What a load of hooey! Messianic Jews will gladly hand you a long, laundry list of Old Testament Messianic prophecies about Jesus, but I have no doubt you'll kick them all to the curb based on your lack of understanding.

    Second, the Virgin birth prophecy was correct. There's no other word in Judaism that signifies a young, unmarried, virtuous maiden, than almah. Rebekah was a virgin and was also known as an almah. So almah was correct. If you have another Hebrew word that you think should have been used instead, then trot it out and I'll show you what's wrong with it.

    And there's plenty of churches named "Church of Emmanuel" where they call Jesus Emmanuel by name and sing songs in which Jesus is Emmanuel. So that part of the prophecy was also fulfilled.

    Once again, you haven't done your homework.
     
  4. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    The Roza Bal or Rouza Bal or Rozabal is a shrine located in the Khanyar quarter in Downtown area of Srinagar in Kashmir, India. The word roza means tomb, the word bal mean place. Locals believe a sage is buried here, Yuzasaf or Yuz Asaf, alongside another Muslim holy man, Mir Sayyid Naseeruddin. The shrine was relatively unknown until the founder of the Ahmadiyya movement, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, claimed in 1899 that it is actually the tomb of Jesus. This view is maintained by Ahmadis today, though....

    Roza Bal - Wikipedia
     
  5. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Then we must not have any here since they cannot seem to do so. And please, no false accusations. You are the one that has trouble understanding the Bible.

    Bethulah. Almah only means young woman. Bethulah specifically means virgin. The author of that prophecy used both. The Greek Septuagint was in error:

    Betulah (Virgin) vs Almah (Young Woman) - We Are Israel Blog

    See, I knew you would demonstrate that your understanding was inferior.

    Yes, and that proves my point. They are only named that because of the failed prophecy. There is no record of him being called that during his lifetime. This is a bonus. I did not expect you to mess up twice.

    Oh my!! There goes another irony meter!
     
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  6. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

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    Betulah? ROTFLOL.

    "An almah in ancient Judaism was always considered a virgin unless there was compelling evidence against her virginity. And you cannot necessarily use the Hebrew word "betulah" instead (which can be an older woman, and since a betulah in Joel 1:9 is a married woman). The only word in Hebrew (besides possibly naarah) that can really signify a young maiden virgin is almah. Also, nowhere in Scripture is an almah seen as one who has lost her virginity."

    Not only that, but if you think betulah is unambiguous for virgin, then you have to explain how and why the King's concubines were referred to as betulah's even AFTER they had dropped trou and shacked up with the king in Esther chapter 2? Almah clearly doesn't have the baggage that your betulah's have in Scripture.

    What's more, when betulah is used in reference to Rebekah as a virgin (in Genesis chapter 24) it came with the qualifier "nor had any man known her." The qualifier wasn't necessary when almah was used in reference to her as a virgin.

    Finally, when the JEWISH RABBIS translated the Tanakh into the Greek (Greek Septuagint) THEY used the Greek word for virgin - parthenos - in Isaiah 7:14. That's the word from which we get the Parthenon - you know - the Temple of the Virgin Athena! LOL!

    And you claim my understanding is inferior? LOL. You bought the farm with this latest fiasco of yours.

    That's another screw up on your part. The prophecy didn't state he had to be called that DURING HIS LIFETIME.

    So, you're 0-2 is his post. Why? Because you haven't done your homework.
     
  7. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    You failed again. You had to stop to apologists and not actual scholars. Liars for Jesus are never very convincing.

    And yes, Hebrew scholars translated that verse and screwed up. That happens quite often with translations when the knowledge of one of the languages is not perfect. The error has been recognized since then. And if read n context the passage clearly did not apply to Jesus. Quote mining is a form of lying.

    and seriously you do not understand how the Emmanuel prophecy failed? Your understanding of the Bible is inferior because you cannot afford to understand it.
     
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  8. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

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    You screwed up badly. Your so-called virgin betulahs were getting pounded by the king in Esther chapter 2. Your so-called virgin betulah in Joel 1:8 is an OLD MARRIED WOMAN. She's probably been copulating and having intercourse for decades.

    And you're claiming victory?

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Of course you lost. You had to use failed sources. I am sorry that your understanding of the Bible is so poor. The women in Esther were, please note the past tense. virgins when they were found. Now it appears that you failed your sex ed class as well. Women that have not had sex are virgins. Only after they have had sex are they no longer virgins. Let me help you with the verses that you did not understand again:

    "2 Later when King Xerxes’ fury had subsided, he remembered Vashti and what she had done and what he had decreed about her. 2 Then the king’s personal attendants proposed, “Let a search be made for beautiful young virgins for the king. "

    The women that he chose were virgins at the time. If you read further you would see that on average it was six months before they shacked up with the King. And here is where the sex ed part comes in, once they were getting pounded by the king, they were no longer virgins.

    It is rather amazing that you do not understand the Bible at all.
     
  10. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

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    That's pathetic. Your betulahs were putting out like a gum ball machine. One was an OLD MARRIED WOMAN (not a young maiden) who had been married for some time. And those are your young maiden virgins? LOL.

    You need a lot of help with your theology.
     
  11. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    They are not my virgins. That was the way it was back then. It is sad that you do not understand your own holy book. You were wrong. You tried to put a false definition on "almah". It only means 'young maiden". It says nothing about where she was a hooker or a saint. And since Mary messed around on Joseph it looks like she was not a saint.
     
  12. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

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    You were busted. Betulahs can be OLD WOMEN. Copulating old women.

    And God choosing Mary to bring forth the Savior and Messiah is not "messing around on Joseph." That's incredibly tacky on your part.
     
  13. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    They can be old women. They can't be copulating old women. It looks like we might have to go through sex ed for you all over again.

    Do you know what the word "virgin" means?

    And you forgot that a good part of the Bible is myth. I am not the one with the rather disturbing attitude towards sex.

    You really should be asking yourself if the writer of the non-prophecy (remember it was not about Jesus in the first place, read it in context) thought that this would be virgin birth, then why didn't he use the word that clearly meant "virgin"?

    And seeing how you denigrated actual virgins multiple times I am far from being the tacky one here.
     
    #753 Subduction Zone, May 28, 2019
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
  14. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

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    <facepalm>

    One other thing: How would one of your old, copulating betulahs be a "SIGN" for the House of David? A sign in the Bible is normally an unusual, supernatural event. A young virgin with child fulfills that sign. Your tired old hussies don't.
     
  15. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    I see that that sex ed lesson still has not kicked in.

    They were virgins until they had sex. When found they were virgins. Why is that such a hard concept to understand? Do you believe the myth that Mary was a virgin for all of her life? That is not even biblical. Your facepalming privileges have been revoked since you don't understand 6th grade intro to human relationships.
     
  16. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Well-Known Member

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    Yeah in modern times, by people who have read the OT and could name their church whatever they wanted. In other words, it's a self-fulfilled prophecy. By these standards, if I order a steak dinner at a restaurant and then a waiter brings me a steak dinner later on, then we have just fulfilled a prophecy.
    That's pretty lame, as far as prophecies go, don't you think?
     
  17. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

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    "The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Corinthians 2:14
     
  18. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Well-Known Member

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    Is that your serious answer?
     
  19. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

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    What - you think that Biblical morality is the pits? Yeah, that's why you're in the dark.
     
  20. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

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    Anything more to you would only be continuing to suffer your folly. You don't learn and you haven't done your homework.
     
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