Did Jesus Create God

[Prestor John]

so you don't believe god would send a spirit more than once, like a blacksmith would continually return the unformed and unfinished metal again and again in the forge?

No, that would be like being placed on trial for the same crime over and over again.

We came here to gain the Knowledge of Good and Evil and the experience to hopefully choose the Good over the Evil.

We will be judged. It is our trial.

 

[Fool]

No, that would be like being placed on trial for the same crime over and over again.

We came here to gain the Knowledge of Good and Evil and the experience to hopefully choose the Good over the Evil.

We will be judged. It is our trial.

but don't educators do that all the time with students who aren't proficient enough to pass on to the next grade?


you see it as a punishment and not as patience to allow all to come to the same point in their abilities? or their proficiency?

 

[Prestor John]

but don't educators do that all the time with students who aren't proficient enough to pass on to the next grade?


you see it as a punishment and not as patience to allow all to come to the same point in their abilities? or their proficiency?

You cannot lose the Knowledge of Good and Evil or the experiences gained by applying that knowledge once you have obtained them.

To repeat this life would require to be born as an innocent child once again void of all the knowledge and experiences you obtained in your previous life.

That wouldn't be like returning metal to the forge, but picking up a new piece and placing it in the forge. You would never make a finished product.

Once we leave this mortal life we enter into the Spirit World where we wait for the time of our bodily Resurrection.

Our time spent there will be filled with learning and teaching and coming to understand those things we failed to see in this life.

There are no do-overs. How many more times would you require the Son of God to suffer for you?

 

[Fool]

You cannot lose the Knowledge of Good and Evil or the experiences gained by applying that knowledge once you have obtained them.

To repeat this life would require to be born as an innocent child once again void of all the knowledge and experiences you obtained in your previous life.

That wouldn't be like returning metal to the forge, but picking up a new piece and placing it in the forge. You would never make a finished product.

Once we leave this mortal life we enter into the Spirit World where we wait for the time of our bodily Resurrection.

Our time spent there will be filled with learning and teaching and coming to understand those things we failed to see in this life.

There are no do-overs. How many more times would you require the Son of God to suffer for you?

So when jesus tells the disciples that the Spirit of Elijah has already returned and they didn't know him, you're disageeing?

But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands."

 

[Muffled]

I believe I do not suppose that.

 

[Muffled]

In my understanding Jesus is a part of God so they are same, just that Jesus had a physical body when he was on earth. God does not have a physical body. only spiritul (in my understanding)

I believe God is not divided in parts. The dichotomy is a perception , not a reality.

 

[Muffled]

some believe that jesus, a person, created all that was before, all that is now, all that will be. i'm with you. that's why i asked the question.


thanks for sharing

I believe they are mistaken. God who is in Jesus created everything except Himself.

 

[Prestor John]

So when jesus tells the disciples that the Spirit of Elijah has already returned and they didn't know him, you're disageeing?"

I disagree with your interpretation of what the "spirit of Elias" is. The Lord Jesus Christ never taught the concept of reincarnation.

First off, the angel Gabriel told Zacharias (John the Baptist's father) that his son would go before the Lord "in the spirit and power of Elias" (Luke 1:17)

Notice that the angel did not say that John the Baptist would be the prophet Elijah reborn, but that he would bear the "spirit" and "power" of Elias.

Second, John the Baptist himself, claimed to not be Elias when asked. "Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not." (John 1:21)

I understand that Elias is the Greek form of the Hebrew name Elijah, but I want to draw your attention to that fact that these two verses discussed two different things.

The first mentioned by the angel was the "spirit and power of Elias (Elijah)" or in other words, his authority and the second was a question concerning the prophecy of Elijah returning to the Earth before the coming of the Kingdom of God.

To better understand this concept of having the authority of Elias, we need more instruction from the Master.

After John the Baptist's disciples came questioning the Lord He revealed some amazing details about John the Baptist, which were:

1.) He was more than just a prophet and one of the justifications the Lord gave for this distinction was that John the Baptist fulfilled the words of prophecy, which were,

"For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee." (Matthew 11:10)

John the Baptist was more than a prophet because he was sent to Earth with a particular mission, to be the herald of the Lord and to prepare His people for His coming.

2.) That John the Baptist was the greatest of all those "born of women", save the Lord Jesus Christ Himself (the least in the kingdom of heaven). (Matthew 11:11)

This would of course also rule out both Adam and Eve since neither of them were born of women.

3.) John the Baptist was the culmination of the prophecies of the Mosaic Law and the Prophets. (Matthew 11:12-13)

4.) Receiving the testimony of John the Baptist, that the Law and the Prophets were fulfilled in the arrival of the Lord Jesus Christ, and that all must rely on Him is to receive the witness of the "spirit or power or authority of Elias".

"And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come." (Matthew 11:14)

Another way of saying that a person comes in the "spirit and power of Elias" is to refer to them by it as a title.

John the Baptist was an Elias. He was sent to Earth to be a forerunner or a preparer of things to come. In this light both Noah and the angel Gabriel can accurately be referred to as Elias.

The Lord revealed even more concerning what it could mean to be an Elias after His disciples asked Him concerning why Elias should come first, before the Kingdom of God on Earth. He said,

"Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things." (Matthew 17:11)

An Elias can also be someone who restores something that has been lost. Either doctrine, scripture, priesthood, etc.

By this distinction the Lord Jesus Christ Himself could be described as an Elias, for He restored or fulfilled the Law and the prophets.

However, due to the future tense used by the Lord in Matthew 17:11, that Elias "shall" first come and restore all things before the coming of the Kingdom of God upon the Earth, I am convinced that neither the ministry of John the Baptist nor the appearance of Elijah (Elias) on the Mount of Transfiguration were what He was referring to here and He was looking forward to a future time.

It is similar to in the Lord's Prayer when He said, "Thy kingdom come.", which is a reference to a future event, rather than to His mortal ministry.

I am convinced that the coming of Elias awaited by the Jews is in reference to his coming to the Earth sometime leading up to the Millennial Reign of Christ after the First Resurrection of the Just.

 

[Fool]

I disagree with your interpretation of what the "spirit of Elias" is. The Lord Jesus Christ never taught the concept of reincarnation.

First off, the angel Gabriel told Zacharias (John the Baptist's father) that his son would go before the Lord "in the spirit and power of Elias" (Luke 1:17)

Notice that the angel did not say that John the Baptist would be the prophet Elijah reborn, but that he would bear the "spirit" and "power" of Elias.

Second, John the Baptist himself, claimed to not be Elias when asked. "Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not." (John 1:21)

I understand that Elias is the Greek form of the Hebrew name Elijah, but I want to draw your attention to that fact that these two verses discussed two different things.

The first mentioned by the angel was the "spirit and power of Elias (Elijah)" or in other words, his authority and the second was a question concerning the prophecy of Elijah returning to the Earth before the coming of the Kingdom of God.

To better understand this concept of having the authority of Elias, we need more instruction from the Master.

After John the Baptist's disciples came questioning the Lord He revealed some amazing details about John the Baptist, which were:

1.) He was more than just a prophet and one of the justifications the Lord gave for this distinction was that John the Baptist fulfilled the words of prophecy, which were,

"For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee." (Matthew 11:10)

John the Baptist was more than a prophet because he was sent to Earth with a particular mission, to be the herald of the Lord and to prepare His people for His coming.

2.) That John the Baptist was the greatest of all those "born of women", save the Lord Jesus Christ Himself (the least in the kingdom of heaven). (Matthew 11:11)

This would of course also rule out both Adam and Eve since neither of them were born of women.

3.) John the Baptist was the culmination of the prophecies of the Mosaic Law and the Prophets. (Matthew 11:12-13)

4.) Receiving the testimony of John the Baptist, that the Law and the Prophets were fulfilled in the arrival of the Lord Jesus Christ, and that all must rely on Him is to receive the witness of the "spirit or power or authority of Elias".

"And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come." (Matthew 11:14)

Another way of saying that a person comes in the "spirit and power of Elias" is to refer to them by it as a title.

John the Baptist was an Elias. He was sent to Earth to be a forerunner or a preparer of things to come. In this light both Noah and the angel Gabriel can accurately be referred to as Elias.

The Lord revealed even more concerning what it could mean to be an Elias after His disciples asked Him concerning why Elias should come first, before the Kingdom of God on Earth. He said,

"Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things." (Matthew 17:11)

An Elias can also be someone who restores something that has been lost. Either doctrine, scripture, priesthood, etc.

By this distinction the Lord Jesus Christ Himself could be described as an Elias, for He restored or fulfilled the Law and the prophets.

However, due to the future tense used by the Lord in Matthew 17:11, that Elias "shall" first come and restore all things before the coming of the Kingdom of God upon the Earth, I am convinced that neither the ministry of John the Baptist nor the appearance of Elijah (Elias) on the Mount of Transfiguration were what He was referring to here and He was looking forward to a future time.

It is similar to in the Lord's Prayer when He said, "Thy kingdom come.", which is a reference to a future event, rather than to His mortal ministry.

I am convinced that the coming of Elias awaited by the Jews is in reference to his coming to the Earth sometime leading up to the Millennial Reign of Christ after the First Resurrection of the Just.

the spirit returns and is sent. that is what reincarnation is. the personality doesn't survive. the spirit does. its what the parents name elijah in one space/time and another set of parents called john in another.


so you disagree too with jesus when he claimed that before abraham I AM? avatars know their previous incarnations once they become enlightened. they claimed he was a priest forever after the order of melchizedek

 

[Prestor John]

the spirit returns and is sent. that is what reincarnation is. the personality doesn't survive. the spirit does. its what the parents name elijah in one space/time and another set of parents called john in another.

An exercise in futility.

so you disagree too with jesus when he claimed that before abraham I AM?

First off, you cannot claim that I "disagree too with jesus" when I did not disagree with His claim that John the Baptist was Elias, but rather the conclusion you came to.

Now here again I disagree with your interpretation of His claim, not with what He actually claimed.

The Lord Jesus Christ was not claiming that He was a reincarnation, but rather that He was that same Being who spoke to Moses and instructed him to go to the children of Israel and claim that "I AM" had sent him.

Before He had entered into mortality, the Lord Jesus Christ was "I AM THAT I AM", the Self-Existent One, also known as Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

It was He who created the physical Universe, including the Earth. He formed Adam and Eve in the Garden, which He Himself planted. He was the God of Seth and He walked with Enoch. It was He who instructed Noah to build the Ark in preparation for the Flood.

He also made His covenant with Abraham and foretold of His eventual coming in the flesh. The promise of which Abraham saw and caused him to be glad (John 8:56).

This is why the Pharisees sought to kill Him after He claimed that He not only existed before Abraham, but that He was I AM because He was claiming that He was their God.

avatars know their previous incarnations once they become enlightened. they claimed he was a priest forever after the order of melchizedek

The Priesthood of Melchizedek is after the order of the Son of God.

It is the Lord Jesus Christ's Priesthood, for it was by His authority that Melchizedek made intercession for the inhabitants of Salem.

All power and glory and indeed any good thing come from Christ, for He is the Son of God, the author of our eternal salvation.

 

[Fool]

An exercise in futility.

First off, you cannot claim that I "disagree too with jesus" when I did not disagree with His claim that John the Baptist was Elias, but rather the conclusion you came to.

Now here again I disagree with your interpretation of His claim, not with what He actually claimed.

The Lord Jesus Christ was not claiming that He was a reincarnation, but rather that He was that same Being who spoke to Moses and instructed him to go to the children of Israel and claim that "I AM" had sent him.

i never mentioned moses; although he was joshua to moses. in ancient time the greeks referred to it as palingenesis.

Before He had entered into mortality, the Lord Jesus Christ was "I AM THAT I AM", the Self-Existent One, also known as Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

he said that abraham was glad to see his day. meaning he actually saw him as melchizedek. melchizedek was called lord. that is why jesus is patterned/ordered after melchizedek and not before him, like abraham.

It was He who created the physical Universe, including the Earth. He formed Adam and Eve in the Garden, which He Himself planted. He was the God of Seth and He walked with Enoch. It was He who instructed Noah to build the Ark in preparation for the Flood.

god is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. god is not a man that he should lie, nor the son of man that he should repent. jesus called himself the son of man and the son of god for a reason.

He also made His covenant with Abraham and foretold of His eventual coming in the flesh. The promise of which Abraham saw and caused him to be glad (John 8:56).

This is why the Pharisees sought to kill Him after He claimed that He not only existed before Abraham, but that He was I AM because He was claiming that He was their God.

The Priesthood of Melchizedek is after the order of the Son of God.

It is the Lord Jesus Christ's Priesthood, for it was by His authority that Melchizedek made intercession for the inhabitants of Salem.

All power and glory and indeed any good thing come from Christ, for He is the Son of God, the author of our eternal salvation.

jesus never claimed to be the father, that is the great I AM. the Father is greater than i am.


everything created is the offspring of god

 

[Prestor John]

i never mentioned moses;

I never claimed that you did.

although he was joshua to moses. in ancient time the greeks referred to it as palingenesis.

I'm confused.

Are you claiming that Moses would have interpreted the name Yeshua as Joshua, rather than Jesus, or that Joshua the son of Nun was an incarnation of the Lord Jesus Christ?

he said that abraham was glad to see his day. meaning he actually saw him as melchizedek.

That makes no sense to me.

The Lord Jesus Christ did not claim that He met Abraham when He was some past incarnation.

He claimed that Abraham had been glad to "see His day", as in the time of His mortal ministry. He did not say that Abraham was glad to "meet Him and paid tithes as a past incarnation".

Many prophets, as seers, were able to witness future events before they came to pass.

Abraham was allowed to see the fulfillment of the promises made to him when he saw the time (or day) of the Lord's then future mortal ministry.

melchizedek was called lord.

When was Melchizedek referred to as "Lord"?

that is why jesus is patterned/ordered after melchizedek and not before him, like abraham.

I would encourage you to read Hebrews 7 in it's entirety.

The chapter is speaking of the Oath of the Priesthood, which was named after Melchizedek, and how the Lord Jesus Christ, being who He is, needed no ordination and has always been a Priest after that Order, for it was first His.

It does not speak of reincarnation.

god is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

What do you think that means?

god is not a man that he should lie, nor the son of man that he should repent. jesus called himself the son of man and the son of god for a reason.

Yes, He is just as much God's immortal son as He is Mary's mortal son.

He had within Him the capacity to sin, because He was mortal, but He never yielded to temptation and never committed any sin, because He allowed His will to be swallowed up by the will of the Father, which makes Him the eternal Son of God..

jesus never claimed to be the father, that is the great I AM.

The Lord Jesus Christ acted as the Father throughout the history of the world, from the Creation to the time of His own mortal ministry.

All things were done by Him. All promises made through Him. He is the author of our eternal salvation.

the Father is greater than i am.

The Father is greater than all, but He was not the Being that spoke with Moses and introduced Himself as "I AM".

That was the pre-mortal Lord Jesus Christ.

everything created is the offspring of god

I disagree.

The spirits of all Mankind are the spiritual offspring of God the Father, while the Lord Jesus Christ was sired by the Father both spiritually and physically, thus becoming the Only Begotten of the Father in the flesh.

 

[Fool]

I never claimed that you did.

I'm confused.

Are you claiming that Moses would have interpreted the name Yeshua as Joshua, rather than Jesus, or that Joshua the son of Nun was an incarnation of the Lord Jesus Christ?

YEP. he got to see the promise Land for a reason. He was moses' Lord .he was the mouth piece through which god spoke on the mountain and in the tent of meeting.

The Lord Jesus Christ did not claim that He met Abraham when He was some past incarnation.

Abraham knew him as Melchizedek. This is where he taught charity to Abraham. He heard sarah llaughing at him. Prophets we're God's son, his angels.

he claimed that Abraham had been glad to "see His day", as in the time of His mortal ministry. He did not say that Abraham was glad to "meet Him and paid tithes as a past incarnation".

Abraham wasn't a prophet. He couldn't see into the future, or past. Supposedly jesJe could.

When was Melchizedek referred to as "Lord"?

when Melchizedek heard sarah laughing.

I would encourage you to read Hebrews 7 in it's entirety.

I've read the whole book many times. Many, many times