Did Jesus Create God

[Remté]

I don't understand.

We are all the spirit children of God.

The Lord Jesus Christ was the first, but we are all His spirit siblings.

Oh I see your line of thinking. What about the people before Jesus?

 

[Fool]

God the Father is the ruler of all Creation.

The Lord Jesus Christ is His firstborn spirit son and has the authority of God the Father.

Under the direction of the Father, the Lord Jesus Christ created the physical universe.

Both God the Father, the Lord Jesus Christ - and all living beings - have always existed in some form.

There is no beginning or end to life and creation.

and yet many times god chose the second, or 11th born, or some other in the sequence of things.


for instance god chose joseph as the seer among jacob's children.

but then of course, joseph was an incarnation of that same spirit known as yeshua.

 

[Prestor John]

Oh I see your line of thinking. What about the people before Jesus?

Every single person who has lived in this world, is currently living in this world and who will ever live in this world were begotten spirit children of God long before the Earth was formed.

As spirits we lived with Our Father (God the Father) and our Eldest Brother (The Lord Jesus Christ).

 

[Prestor John]

and yet many times god chose the second, or 11th born, or some other in the sequence of things.


for instance god chose joseph as the seer among jacob's children.

but then of course, joseph was an incarnation of that same spirit known as yeshua.

I do not subscribe to that belief and believe that YHW was the pre-mortal Jesus Christ.

I believe that it was the Lord Jesus Christ who formed the Earth, spoke to Adam and Eve in the Garden, commanded Noah to build the Ark, covenanted with Abraham and led the Israelites out of Egypt.

His coming into mortality - to teach, suffer and die for us - was the apex of the Father's plan to bring eternal joy and salvation to all His children.

 

[jfietsam]

I personally feel that Jesus's disciples created an image of a god that is not the same as the God of the Old Testament Who declared Himself Perfect in ALL His Ways. I do believe God has different ways of ruling over each of the religions, and each one seems to have its positives and negatives. I read part of a Quran and found it to bring up some incredible points, but I did not want that "Allah" ruling over my life any longer, so I set it aside.

Jesus did say many would come in his name and leads others astray...

 

[Fool]

I do not subscribe to that belief and believe that YHW was the pre-mortal Jesus Christ.

I believe that it was the Lord Jesus Christ who formed the Earth, spoke to Adam and Eve in the Garden, commanded Noah to build the Ark, covenanted with Abraham and led the Israelites out of Egypt.

His coming into mortality - to teach, suffer and die for us - was the apex of the Father's plan to bring eternal joy and salvation to all His children.

so you don't believe the word regeneration; which is used two times in the NT and transliterated from the greek word paliggenesia, means metempsychosis? that they are synonyms?


Palingenesis (/ˌpælɪnˈdʒɛnəsɪs/; also palingenesia) is a concept of rebirth or re-creation, used in various contexts in philosophy, theology, politics, and biology. Its meaning stems from Greek palin, meaning again, and genesis, meaning birth.

In biology, it is another word for recapitulation—the largely discredited hypothesis which talks of the phase in the development of an organism in which its form and structure pass through the changes undergone in the evolution of the species. In political theory, it is a central component of Roger Griffin's analysis of Fascism as a fundamentally modernist ideology.[1] In theology, the word may refer to reincarnation or to Christian spiritual rebirth symbolized by baptism.

 

[Prestor John]

so you don't believe the word regeneration; which is used two times in the NT and transliterated from the greek word paliggenesia, means metempsychosis? that they are synonyms?


Palingenesis (/ˌpælɪnˈdʒɛnəsɪs/; also palingenesia) is a concept of rebirth or re-creation, used in various contexts in philosophy, theology, politics, and biology. Its meaning stems from Greek palin, meaning again, and genesis, meaning birth.

In biology, it is another word for recapitulation—the largely discredited hypothesis which talks of the phase in the development of an organism in which its form and structure pass through the changes undergone in the evolution of the species. In political theory, it is a central component of Roger Griffin's analysis of Fascism as a fundamentally modernist ideology.[1] In theology, the word may refer to reincarnation or to Christian spiritual rebirth symbolized by baptism.

God the Father is a glorious perfected Being, because He possess both a spirit and a physical body of flesh and bone.

The Lord Jesus Christ, before His birth into mortality, did not posses a physical body, but was only a spirit.

After His death and Resurrection, He possess a physical body like the Father and has been perfected, both spiritually and physically, just like the Father.

Through baptism (the washing of regeneration) we are able to symbolically die, be buried and rise as the Lord Jesus Christ is.

However, the Lord Jesus Christ has made it literally possible for all of God's children to become perfected in Him and to be as the Father is.

All of us are now capable of overcoming both physical death and sin.

I believe this process is the regeneration you are referring to.

 

[Fool]

God the Father is a glorious perfected Being, because He possess both a spirit and a physical body of flesh and bone.

The Lord Jesus Christ, before His birth into mortality, did not posses a physical body, but was only a spirit.

After His death and Resurrection, He possess a physical body like the Father and has been perfected, both spiritually and physically, just like the Father.

Through baptism (the washing of regeneration) we are able to symbolically die, be buried and rise as the Lord Jesus Christ is.

However, the Lord Jesus Christ has made it literally possible for all of God's children to become perfected in Him and to be as the Father is.

All of us are now capable of overcoming both physical death and sin.

I believe this process is the regeneration you are referring to.

so you don't believe the definition of regeneration from the greek paliggenesia is correct?

Strong's 3824 paliggenesia comes from the combination of two words: from Strong's G3825 palin and G1078 genesis; which is transliterated as regeneration.

palin

1. anew, again
   1. renewal or repetition of the action
      
      
   2. again, anew
2. again, i.e. further, moreover
   
   
3. in turn, on the other hand

again is used 142 times in the NT of the KJV

genesis

1. source, origin
   1. a book of one's lineage, i.e. in which his ancestry or progeny are enumerated
2. used of birth, nativity
   
   
3. of that which follows origin, viz. existence, life
   1. the wheel of life (Jas 3:6), other explain it, the wheel of human origin which as soon as men are born begins to run, i.e. its course of life

generation is used 1 times in the NT of the KJV and natural is used 2 times.



Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

 

[MonkeyFire]

In my religion Jesus, and Michael existed forever before in Heaven with God then He created satan for a short time, as he had never existed before.

 

[Prestor John]

so you don't believe the definition of regeneration from the greek paliggenesia is correct?

Strong's 3824 paliggenesia comes from the combination of two words: from Strong's G3825 palin and G1078 genesis; which is transliterated as regeneration.


Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

I believe these verses are in reference to the time of bodily Resurrection and Final Judgment.

 

[Fool]

I believe these verses are in reference to the time of bodily Resurrection and Final Judgment.

the word resurrection is used and interpreted differently. they are not interpreted as synonyms by the scholars. so you are claiming they are synonyms?


so you do believe that the scholars interpreted the word paliggenesia wrong and that resurrection is a synonym?


ressurrection is translated from the greek word anastasis.

1. a raising up, rising (e.g. from a seat)
   
   
2. a rising from the dead
   
   1. that of Christ
      
      
   2. that of all men at the end of this present age
      
      
   3. the resurrection of certain ones history who were restored to life

so you believe rising from the dead is the spirit being baptized in water, or immersion into the water for heaven and earth to be created? realized? actualized?

 

[Prestor John]

the word resurrection is used and interpreted differently. they are not interpreted as synonyms by the scholars. so you are claiming they are synonyms?


so you do believe that the scholars interpreted the word paliggenesia wrong and that resurrection is a synonym?


ressurrection is translated from the greek word anastasis.

1. a raising up, rising (e.g. from a seat)
   
   
2. a rising from the dead
   1. that of Christ
      
      
   2. that of all men at the end of this present age
      
      
   3. the resurrection of certain ones history who were restored to life

so you believe rising from the dead is the spirit being baptized in water, or immersion into the water for heaven and earth to be created? realized? actualized?

Baptism symbolizes the death, burial and Resurrection of Christ.

I understand the concept of regeneration as us becoming a new creature in Christ.

We do this in two ways, 1.) Living free of sin (spiritual death) and, 2.) Living free of physical death.

The first is through acceptance of Christ and repenting of our sins which is accomplished through baptism and continued adherence to God's laws.

The second is a free gift from the Lord Jesus Christ to all no matter how we choose to live our lives.

 

[Fool]

Baptism symbolizes the death, burial and Resurrection of Christ.

I understand the concept of regeneration as us becoming a new creature in Christ.

We do this in two ways, 1.) Living free of sin (spiritual death) and, 2.) Living free of physical death.

The first is through acceptance of Christ and repenting of our sins which is accomplished through baptism and continued adherence to God's laws.

The second is a free gift from the Lord Jesus Christ to all no matter how we choose to live our lives.

your post just described genesis chapter 1 verses 1-3; which then makes christ all and in all, or coming from the light



do you believe that the scholars interpreted the word paliggenesia wrong and that resurrection is a synonym?

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

You suppose jesus christ created god and the universe, before himself? after himself?

It’s not as complex as it seems, if you divorce yourself from thinking of God in worldly terms, such as space and time.
God is spirit. The infinite things in God are all one.
Therefore, Divine omnipresence is that Divinity fills everything, but non-spacially. And Divinity is present in all time, non-temporally.

The universe is the creation of the Divine human. (Jesus, who is a manifestation of God) God entered the universe in the person of Jesus. A human baby. He battled all the hells throughout His life, and when it was finished, His human body became Divine. That’s why there were no remains in the tomb. This Divine human created the universe.

Note: the human Jesus existed as a human in space and time, until the moment he said “it is finished”

imo

 

[Prestor John]

your post just described genesis chapter 1 verses 1-3; which then makes christ all and in all, or coming from the light

I don't understand.

do you believe that the scholars interpreted the word paliggenesia wrong and that resurrection is a synonym?

I don't understand how I am contesting their interpretation.

 

[Fool]

I don't understand.

I don't understand how I am contesting their interpretation.

regeneration is a downward movement of energy, spirit into matter.

resurrection is a upward movement of matter, carnal into spirit, energy.


regeneration, or palingenesis, and resurrection, or anastasis, are movements but they are opposed. they aren't synonyms.


its like exhaling and inhaling, they are both movements of the breath but one is inward and the other is outward.

inhale and exhale are actually antipodal.


example following of some ascending and some descending


Genesis 28:12
Then he dreamed, and behold, a ladder was set up on the earth, and its top reached to heaven; and there the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.

 

[Prestor John]

regeneration is a downward movement of energy, spirit into matter.

resurrection is a upward movement of matter, carnal into spirit, energy.


regeneration, or palingenesis, and resurrection, or anastasis, are movements but they are opposed. they aren't synonyms.


its like exhaling and inhaling, they are both movements of the breath but one is inward and the other is outward.

inhale and exhale are actually antipodal.


example following of some ascending and some descending


Genesis 28:12
Then he dreamed, and behold, a ladder was set up on the earth, and its top reached to heaven; and there the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.

If that is how they interpret the idea of regeneration then I definitely disagree.

Both regeneration and resurrection are "upward" movements.

The first is overcoming sin and the second is overcoming death.

Both are offered to us by the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Fool]

If that is how they interpret the idea of regeneration then I definitely disagree.

Both regeneration and resurrection are "upward" movements.

The first is overcoming sin and the second is overcoming death.

Both are offered to us by the Lord Jesus Christ.

so what is the cause for the spirit to come into this incarnation?


here is an instance of regeneration:


Jeremiah 18:4
And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

 

[Prestor John]

so what is the cause for the spirit to come into this incarnation?

To gain knowledge of Good and Evil, experience in an imperfect world and hopefully wisdom by correctly applying the knowledge and experience received.

The Lord is testing our mettle and desire.

here is an instance of regeneration:


Jeremiah 18:4
And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

The Lord claims that he is able to withdraw works of destruction meant for wicked nations if they repent.

If applied to what the Atonement of Christ, the Lord is able to remove the effects of sin from us if we repent.

Repentance is gained by having faith in Christ, sacrificing our sins, being baptized and continuing in obedience and faith.

All the pronouncements of potential destruction issued to Mankind can be alleviated through this process.

We can can receive this regeneration if we are willing to rely on the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Fool]

To gain knowledge of Good and Evil, experience in an imperfect world and hopefully wisdom by correctly applying the knowledge and experience received.

The Lord is testing our mettle and desire.

The Lord claims that he is able to withdraw works of destruction meant for wicked nations if they repent.

If applied to what the Atonement of Christ, the Lord is able to remove the effects of sin from us if we repent.

Repentance is gained by having faith in Christ, sacrificing our sins, being baptized and continuing in obedience and faith.

All the pronouncements of potential destruction issued to Mankind can be alleviated through this process.

We can can receive this regeneration if we are willing to rely on the Lord Jesus Christ.

so you don't believe god would send a spirit more than once, like a blacksmith would continually return the unformed and unfinished metal again and again in the forge?