Did Jesus Create God

[nPeace]

@Ray Warren Hi.
I'm not debating in this thread.
I'm simply listening in, at the moment.
I pay attention especially to person's reasoning, and try to understand how they arrive at what they believe. So I am just trying to understand what you mean when you say

God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all the same being in three persons.

What is your understanding of being, in this context, and three persons making up that being?
Also why do you understand God to be three persons?

 

[Fool]

Well... I think that depends on what your faith position is.

If your foundation is Christian the answer would be no. You would say The Word was with God and was God. The body of Jesus Christ was created in Mary and The Word in-dwelt the body.

If your foundation is Muslim/Jehovah Witness/Mormon you would say that God created Jesus Christ

I don't know of anyone who would say that Jesus Christ created God...; but in this world, anything is possible as a position of faith, even the Spaghetti god.

did you have a particular word in mind? in spirit?


and when that word becomes flesh, isn't that a person? and will that word return to god who sent it forth? AUM? AMEN?


and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.



so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

 

[Fool]

I'm not to be honest 100% sure on my views on this but I'll give it a shot:Context is everything when quoting from any source. Here is the context: Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 28 - New International Version He was talking to His disciples just before His ascension into heaven...Here is something Jesus did say (and you could go and look into the context : Matthew 18:20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.” Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 18 - New International Version put together then you find that neither contradict at least in my opinion. Also while i believe in the Trinity I am not sure how that would work. Perhaps since the Holy Spirit is Him and(this is now me turning to Quaker beliefs rather then traditional Christian ones-the reason I changed my profile to say a Quaker with Christian beliefs from a Quaker and a Christian...My beliefs seem to start to turn away from most of my original Christian beliefs which is scaring me a bit..I guess you could still consider me Christian in a very loose way) since there is a little bit of that of the Spirit in everyone...Would that not make Him omni-present?

in matthew 18:20 he references the name; which is I AM. that is my name from exodus 3:14 and how everyone usually responds to themselves in the 1st person. they don't usually reference self as the Fool said so and so, blah, blah.

 

[Fool]

Jesus is Alpha and Omega. The fullness of God's Word. So He made everything that is made because God spoke it into existence. Every word is made with letters. No wonder Jesus is called Alpha and Omega. You could theorize about a source code for the universe even ...

Where the trinity goes wrong is saying Jesus is a distinct person from God the Father. God is really only one person. The trinity concept just confuses people.

God is Father to His children, He is the Word in speaking, the Son in the incarnation and the holy Spirit in eternal nature or essence.

I AM the alpha and the omega, again that is a reference to the Name of names at exodus 3:14


Phil 2:9-Phil 2:11 NLT Therefore, God elevated him to the place of highest honor and gave him the name above all other names, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue declare that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


that name isn't Jesus. it is I AM.

as someone said the name of the game is the name game


I have come in my Father's name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.

so the name isn't Jesus. Great minds think alike.

Revelation 14:1
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

 

[sealchan]

some believe that jesus, a person, created all that was before, all that is now, all that will be. i'm with you. that's why i asked the question.


thanks for sharing

That sounds like a riff from the Gita...that would make Jesus an avatar of Vishnu and Vishnu is Brahman so...

 

[Fool]

That sounds like a riff from the Gita...that would make Jesus an avatar of Vishnu and Vishnu is Brahman so...

vishnu just wants to be someone? everyone? like christ is all and in all? i like the image of vishnu and nagaraja guarding him.

1008 Names of Lord Vishnu | Sahasranamavali of Lord Vishnu


Make I see the gal them bruk out pon the floor
From you don't want no worthless performer
From you don't want no man wey
Can't turn you on gal make I see your hand them up on ya
Can't tan pon it long, naw eat no yam, no steam fish, nor no green banana
But down in Jamaica we give it to you hot like a sauna - temperature - sean paul

 

[Kenny]

did you have a particular word in mind? in spirit?

I'm talking about a person God

and when that word becomes flesh, isn't that a person? and will that word return to god who sent it forth? AUM? AMEN?


and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

Hmmmm.... Doesn't Jesus still have the same body? You know, stick your finger in my hands, your fist in my side?

so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

Yes... His words have that type of power.

So, how did all that relate to your OP?

 

[Fool]

I'm talking about a person God

doesn't every person have a spirit of God?

Hmmmm.... Doesn't Jesus still have the same body? You know, stick your finger in my hands, your fist in my side?

i was told that people got a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:44
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Yes... His words have that type of power.

So, how did all that relate to your OP?

didn't God say let there be and so I AM?


the show must go on...................now is my curtain call

 

[Valjean]

I use a lot of logic and support for my beliefs.. I have good reasons for believing the Bible. At least the New testament. And why must there always be proof for why you belief something when you do not need proof to not believe something?

I'm glad to hear this. We can have an intelligent discussion.
I'd be interested in knowing what these good reasons are.

As for proof, no-one's asking for proof. Proof's a pretty high bar -- we don't even have proof that the Earth is round.
All we're asking for is the empirical evidence and logic you're basing these beliefs on.

For a belief to be reasonable, shouldn't it be arrived at by critical analysis of established facts?
For non-belief, however, you don't need anything. Non-belief is the epistemic default position; a blank slate, awaiting evidence to evaluate. It's the reason people don't believe in unicorns or faeries in the garden.

And as for the authority of the new testament have you looked into why some consider it a good historical source? Who says I'm trying to convince others anyway? I'm just stating my beliefs.

Historicity isn't very strong evidence. History is common knowledge. You'd expect writings from any source to reflect this common knowledge. Nevertheless, the Bible is particularly remarkable in its well evidenced historical.

If you're just stating your beliefs, not trying to convince anyone of anything, why are you posting in a debate forum?

 

[VoidCat]

I'm glad to hear this. We can have an intelligent discussion.
I'd be interested in knowing what these good reasons are.

As for proof, no-one's asking for proof. Proof's a pretty high bar -- we don't even have proof that the Earth is round.
All we're asking for is the empirical evidence and logic you're basing these beliefs on.

For a belief to be reasonable, shouldn't it be arrived at by critical analysis of established facts?
For non-belief, however, you don't need anything. Non-belief is the epistemic default position; a blank slate, awaiting evidence to evaluate. It's the reason people don't believe in unicorns or faeries in the garden.

Historicity isn't very strong evidence. History is common knowledge. You'd expect writings from any source to reflect this common knowledge. Nevertheless, the Bible is particularly remarkable in its well evidenced historical.

If you're just stating your beliefs, not trying to convince anyone of anything, why are you posting in a debate forum?

I was just answering the question they wrote. Thought it would help me sort my own thoughts on the subject since I'm still trying to figure out what those thoughts are. Didn't really look at where I was posting until after I posted and since it wasn't in a DIR I wasn't supposed to be posting in I just left it there. After all a good debate can help you sort your own views.And people on this subforum ask really good questions I wouldn't be asked about my beliefs otherwise.Since I'm still trying to figure out my beliefs on this subject(God) I cannot offer any evidence or anything really. In fact I've been questioning my beliefs so much in regards to Christianity that I'm not sure if one can still consider me a christian.Just a Quaker with some Christian beliefs. I don't really know why i thought posting here was a good idea. I just wanted to answer the question and sort my own thoughts.

 

[VoidCat]

I'm glad to hear this. We can have an intelligent discussion.
I'd be interested in knowing what these good reasons are.

As for proof, no-one's asking for proof. Proof's a pretty high bar -- we don't even have proof that the Earth is round.
All we're asking for is the empirical evidence and logic you're basing these beliefs on.

For a belief to be reasonable, shouldn't it be arrived at by critical analysis of established facts?
For non-belief, however, you don't need anything. Non-belief is the epistemic default position; a blank slate, awaiting evidence to evaluate. It's the reason people don't believe in unicorns or faeries in the garden.

Now let me answer you and see if it helps me sort my thoughts... Well you know I am a Quaker and I believe that there is a little bit of God's Spirit in everyone. Do you agree sometime through we have no physical evidence of something some things can only be experienced to be understood?I was not raised Quaker but I've had an experience with the Spirit and it lead me to Quakerism.It still guide me in silent worship and in daily life.Not all Quakers are Christians but I have a Christian background being raised as such. Maybe that's part of why I believe the Inner Light to be the Holy Spirit and to be Jesus. It is hard to let go of past beliefs...I've read a lot of historical evidence for the new testament and that supported my beliefs of Jesus dying on the cross and raising from the dead. This belief I feel the Spirit seems to have led me to keep. Maybe I'm wrong on that. Either way the Inward Light has final authority over the Bible and anything else. What I really need is a Clearness committee. To sort my thoughts.To help me understand the establish facts. What is the most likely to be true? However I've never been to a meeting house and my foster parent is a Pentecostal so I can not go to one.However there are other ways to sort my thoughts so I'll try to do so.

 

[Valjean]

Now let me answer you and see if it helps me sort my thoughts... Well you know I am a Quaker and I believe that there is a little bit of God's Spirit in everyone. Do you agree sometime through we have no physical evidence of something some things can only be experienced to be understood?

I do agree, in fact, but I wouldn't expect anyone else to accept personal experience as truth without supporting evidence.

I was not raised Quaker but I've had an experience with the Spirit and it lead me to Quakerism.It still guide me in silent worship and in daily life.Not all Quakers are Christians but I have a Christian background being raised as such. Maybe that's part of why I believe the Inner Light to be the Holy Spirit and to be Jesus. It is hard to let go of past beliefs...I've read a lot of historical evidence for the new testament and that supported my beliefs of Jesus dying on the cross and raising from the dead. This belief I feel the Spirit seems to have led me to keep. Maybe I'm wrong on that. Either way the Inward Light has final authority over the Bible and anything else. What I really need is a Clearness committee. To sort my thoughts.To help me understand the establish facts. What is the most likely to be true? However I've never been to a meeting house and my foster parent is a Pentecostal so I can not go to one.However there are other ways to sort my thoughts so I'll try to do so.

I appreciate your open-minded approach. There is objective truth, and there are many comfortable fantasies. It's up to each to decide which path to pursue.[/quote][/QUOTE]

 

[VoidCat]

I do agree, in fact, but I wouldn't expect anyone else to accept personal experience as truth without supporting evidence.

I appreciate your open-minded approach. There is objective truth, and there are many comfortable fantasies. It's up to each to decide which path to pursue.

[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]I'm relieved you agree because if you didn't I wasn't sure how I was going to continue answering if you didn't...there is objective truth this si true and I do try to be open-minded...If you like to discuss my beliefs farther you could pm me. It might help me out with sorting these thoughts out to be asked questions.

 

[Prestor John]

You suppose jesus christ created god and the universe, before himself? after himself?

God the Father is the ruler of all Creation.

The Lord Jesus Christ is His firstborn spirit son and has the authority of God the Father.

Under the direction of the Father, the Lord Jesus Christ created the physical universe.

Both God the Father, the Lord Jesus Christ - and all living beings - have always existed in some form.

There is no beginning or end to life and creation.

 

[Remté]

No. Jesus was just a messanger.

 

[Remté]

The Lord Jesus Christ is His firstborn

Is that really necessary?

 

[savagewind]

You suppose jesus christ created god and the universe, before himself? after himself?

What to say? OMG! Jesus Christ might not even be real. But, God is real. I am sure. What is not able to be measured in time? God. The man, Jesus, could have lived and ended his Earth life. Jesus can be measured. So, therefore, he can't be God.

 

[Prestor John]

Is that really necessary?

What do you mean?

 

[Remté]

What do you mean?

The word first born. He surely couldn't have had a second born. If he had a first born ...

 

[Prestor John]

The word first born. He surely couldn't have had a second born. If he had a first born ...

I don't understand.

We are all the spirit children of God.

The Lord Jesus Christ was the first, but we are all His spirit siblings.