Did Jesus claim to be God?

[Smoke]

The question has come up on a couple of other threads. On the face of it, it seems like a pretty straightforward question, yet opinions differ sharply on this question.

Can anyone provide an example of Jesus claiming to be God?

The criteria:

• It must be something Jesus said himself, not something said about him by someone else.
• It must be something said by Jesus during his earthly lifetime, not something said in a vision or other ecstatic experience.

 

[Anastasios]

Well, maybe this question is not for me actually, but I will write down some verses. I will be not be able to give on this way, but opposite.
Sorry for that, but he said nothing which fits to your criteria. Jesus used the phrase of "son of god" in metaphorical sense. and it is not a specific description forJesus, since it can be found in many places in bible for others too.
But Christians put forward generally the famous verse from John.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life. JOHN 3.16"
but it is still not a well understandable sing of sonship and being god. Because there are great deal of contradictory verses which refute this verse and general idea.
Such as:

AS A DESCRIPTIVE TERM:
And they made a proclamation in Judah and Jerusalem unto all the children of captivity. EZRA 10.7
Then said he, These are the two sons of oil, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth. ZECHARIA 4.14
Behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial [satin], beset the house round about. JUDGES 19.22
The good seed are the children of the kingdom. MATTHEW 13.38

JESUS NOT THE FIRST BORN SON:
ANGELS:
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and satan was among them. JOB 1.6 & 2:1
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy. JOB 38.7

CHILDREN OF RIGHTEOUS:
That the sons of god saw the daughters of men that they were fair. GENESIS 6.2

THE ISRAELITES:
And thou shalt say to Pharaoh. Thus said the Lord, Israel is my son, even my first born. EXODUS 4.22
And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me. EXODUS 4.23
You are the children of the Lord, your God. DEUTERONOMY 14.1
Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea. Ye are the sons of the living God. HOSEA 1.10
When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt. HOSEA 11.1

JUDGES OF ISRAEL:
I have said ye are gods: and all of you are the children of God. PSALMS 82.6

EPHRAIM:
Is Ephraim my dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spake against him, I do earnestly remember him. JEREMIAH 31.20
I am father to Israel, and Ephraim is my first born. JEREMIAH 31.9

DAVID:
I will declare thee a decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. PSALMS 2.7
Also I will make him my first born. PSALMS 69:37

SOLOMON:
He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be his father. I CHRONICLES 22.10
I will be his father, and he shall be my son. 2 SAMUEL 7.14
And he said unto me, Solomon thy son, he shall build my house and my courts for I have chosen him to be my son, and I will be his father. 1 CHRONICLES 28.6

ADAM:
Adam, which was the son of God. LUKE 3.38

OTHER CHILDREN OF GOD:

THE RIGHTEOUS:
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. ROMANS 8.14
The spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God. ROMANS 8.16
Love your enemy, bless them that curse thee, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them that despitefully use and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven. MATTHEW 5.44/45

CHRIST'S DISCIPLES:
And because ye are sons of God, God hath sent forth the spirit of his son into your hearts crying, Abba, Father. GALATIANS 4.6

CHRIST'S FOLLOWERS:
But as many as received him, to them he gave the power to become the sons of God. JOHN 1.12
For you are the children of God by faith in Jesus Christ GALATIANS 3.25.

BELIEVERS:
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God. I JOHN 5.1

PEACEMAKERS:
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the sons of God. MATTHEW 5.9

CHRIST'S DENIAL OF SONSHIP:
And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of the living God. Jesus said unto him, Thou hast said; nevertheless, I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. MATTHEW 26.63/64
And the devils also came out of many, crying out and saying; Thou art Christ, the Son of God. And he, rebuking them, suffered them not to speak, for they knew that he was Christ. LUKE 4.41

BORN WITHOUT FATHER:

ADAM:
And the Lord God formed man out of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. GENESIS 2:7
EVE:
And the Lord caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs and closed the flesh instead thereof. And the rib which the Lord hath taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. GENESIS 2.21/22
MELCHISEDEC:
For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God. Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the son of God, abideth a priest continually. HEBREW 7.1 & 3

You see it may not be pleasant for some. But well it is Bible.

 

[nutshell]

How about when he asked his apostles who he was and Peter answered, "Thou art the Christ," and Jesus said that's right?

 

[Anastasios]

How about when he asked his apostles who he was and Peter answered, "Thou art the Christ," and Jesus said that's right?

it is not a claim for Godship.

 

[nutshell]

it is not a claim for Godship.

Yes it is. It is the title given to the one who would fill the Messianic prophesy.

 

[Anastasios]

Yes it is. It is the title given to the one who would fill the Messianic prophesy.

The point of question is quite clear.

"Can anyone provide an example of Jesus claiming to be God?"

 

[Smoke]

How about when he asked his apostles who he was and Peter answered, "Thou art the Christ," and Jesus said that's right?

That's a claim to be the Messiah. Did Jesus also say that the Messiah must be God?

 

[Endless]

I think the two most striking examples are the following:

Joh 8:53 "Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Whom do You make Yourself out to be?"
54 Jesus answered, "If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God.
55 "Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, 'I do not know Him,' I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word.
56 "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."
57 Then the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"
58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

and then:

Joh 20:27 Then He said to Thomas, "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing."
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Jesus did not correct Thomas worshipping him and calling him 'My God'.

Although not Jesus' own words, John testifies that Jesus made himself out to be God.

John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

 

[Smoke]

Joh 8:53 "Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Whom do You make Yourself out to be?"

54 Jesus answered, "If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God.
55 "Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, 'I do not know Him,' I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word.
56 "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."
57 Then the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"
58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

​

This is undoubtedly the closest thing to a claim to be God, but it's not an explicit claim, and is susceptible to various interpretations.

Joh 20:27 Then He said to Thomas, "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing."

28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

​

That's a post-resurrection appearance of Jesus, and in my view (though possibly not yours) falls into the category of mystical experiences.

John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.


​

"Making himself equal with God" is editorial comment, not anything Jesus said. See Anastasios' post about sonship.

 

[Quiddity]

Darn, you beat me to it MidnightBlue.

John 8:58, when quizzed about how he has special knowledge of Abraham, Jesus replies, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am"—invoking and applying to himself the personal name of God—"I Am" (Ex. 3:14).

Some Early Church Fathers for those interested:

Tatian the Syrian
"We are not playing the fool, you Greeks, nor do we talk nonsense, when we report that God was born in the form of a man" (Address to the Greeks 21 [A.D. 170]).

Origen
"Although he was God, he took flesh; and having been made man, he remained what he was: God" (The Fundamental Doctrines 1:0:4 [A.D. 225]).

Hippolytus of Rome
"For Christ is the God over all, who has arranged to wash away sin from mankind, rendering the old man new" (ibid., 10:34).

To name a few.

 

[Smoke]

What is the significance of the following passage from John 10?

The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
​

The scripture Jesus alludes to is Psalm 82:

God standeth in the congregation of the mighty;
he judgeth among the gods.
How long will ye judge unjustly,
and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
Defend the poor and fatherless:
do justice to the afflicted and needy.
Deliver the poor and needy:
rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
They know not, neither will they understand;
they walk on in darkness:
all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
I have said, Ye are gods;
and all of you are children of the most High.
But ye shall die like men,
and fall like one of the princes.
Arise, O God, judge the earth:
for thou shalt inherit all nations.

​

So isn't it necessary to interpret any of Jesus' claims in that light?

I have said, Ye are gods;
and all of you are children of the most High.

​

 

[Squirt]

The question has come up on a couple of other threads. On the face of it, it seems like a pretty straightforward question, yet opinions differ sharply on this question.

Can anyone provide an example of Jesus claiming to be God?

The criteria:

• It must be something Jesus said himself, not something said about him by someone else.

• So if God referred to Jesus as "God," that wouldn't count?

It must be something said by Jesus during his earthly lifetime, not something said in a vision or other ecstatic experience.

Well, I think that Jesus did claim godly powers. He claimed to have the power to take up His own life after having laid it down. In other words, He indicated that He would not have to rely on His Father to do this for Him.

I don't believe in the Trinity, so I don't believe He ever claimed to be God the Father.

 

[Smoke]

So if God referred to Jesus as "God," that wouldn't count?

God didn't write any books, so all we could have would be people claiming that God said this or that.

I don't believe in the Trinity, so I don't believe He ever claimed to be God the Father.

Actually, Trinitarians don't believe that Jesus is God the Father, either.

 

[Squirt]

God didn't write any books, so all we could have would be people claiming that God said this or that.

Well then, what difference does it make to your argument that Jesus said said He was God or that His Father said it? Even if Jesus had come right out and said, "I am God," you'd probably say, "Yeah, but we don't know if He really said that or if someone just wrote it down that way."

Actually, Trinitarians don't believe that Jesus is God the Father, either.

That all depends upon which Trinitarian you ask. I've heard a huge range of opinions on this one. When somebody says to me that the Father and the Son were the same individual, I'd say that's no different than if he'd just said Jesus is God the Father.

 

[Halcyon]

If or when I find Gnosis, I will be able to claim all the things Jesus did.

I would be annointed, Christos, with the light of truth.

I would recognise myself as a Son of God, as we are all children of God - and I would see the truth in the title.

I would have gnosis of God and thus supreme comprehension of this realm, as such I could boast that before Abraham I Am, and I would not be lying. The key in understanding this lies in recognising the true definition of I.

And I would be equal with God, because I would not recognise the separation between myself and God.

It isn't important that you believe any of the above.

What is important is that you recognise that interpretation is everything.

 

[Anastasios]

tense About the verse John 8.58: Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

I should say that the tense used in greek is present tense (EIMI), not past or extending from past. There are some other forms to make it in Greek actually.

For a detailed explanation on it see : http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-greek/2002-April/020929.html

 

[Smoke]

John 8:58, when quizzed about how he has special knowledge of Abraham, Jesus replies, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am"—invoking and applying to himself the personal name of God—"I Am" (Ex. 3:14).

Is "I Am" (Ehyeh) really the personal name of God? Or is "I am that I am" (as the KJV has it), that, is, Ehyeh-asher-ehyeh, the whole phrase, one name? And is that the personal name of God? Doesn't the Bible have God saying to Moses:

And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name YHWH was I not known to them.
​

 

[Smoke]

Well then, what difference does it make to your argument that Jesus said said He was God or that His Father said it? Even if Jesus had come right out and said, "I am God," you'd probably say, "Yeah, but we don't know if He really said that or if someone just wrote it down that way."

I'm not going to be drawn off on that tangent.

The question is not whether Jesus is God. The question is, Did Jesus claim to be God?

 

[Quiddity]

So isn't it necessary to interpret any of Jesus' claims in that light?

Good question. Do you have an example of the Israelites stoning, condeming, calling someone a blasphemer for claiming to be a "little god" and not THE GOD? And what other gods claim to be "the Father and I are ONE"?

 

[Squirt]

I'm not going to be drawn off on that tangent.

Obviously. It's a no-win situation for you. If God called Jesus, "God," it doesn't count, but if Jesus called himself "God," that proves a point -- whatever it might be.