Did Jesus Christ actually die?

[sojourner]

I also believe Mark wrote the gospels because Clement Mark got the information from Peter. Luke also translated Paul. Clement was not a biased source. He was a philosopher. Who Wrote The Gospels? These 6 Ancient Sources Tell Us | Reasons for Jesus

<yawn>

Using a biased and non-scholarly web page, written by a not-peer reviewed not-doctor with a degree from a fundigelical school over and over is not evidence; it’s biased anecdote.

 

[Skywalker]

One's believing needs to be corrected, if one may and if one is not too obstinate on one's stance, please :
"Allah (/ˈælə, ˈɑːlə, əˈlɑː/;[1][2] Arabic: الله‎, romanized: Allāh, IPA: [ʔaɫ.ɫaːh] ( listen)) is the Arabic word for God in Abrahamic religions. In the English language, the word generally refers to God in Islam.[3][4][5] The word is thought to be derived by contraction from al-ilāh, which means "the god", and is linguistically related to El (Elohim) and Elah, the Hebrew and Aramaic words for God.[6][7]
The word Allah has been used by Arabic people of different religions since pre-Islamic times.[8] More specifically, it has been used as a term for God by Muslims (both Arab and non-Arab) and Arab Christians.[9] "
" Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, use the word "Allah" to mean "God".[10] The Christian Arabs of today have no other word for "God" than "Allah".[31] Similarly, the Aramaic word for "God" in the language of Assyrian Christians is ʼĔlāhā, or Alaha. (Even the Arabic-descended Maltese language of Malta, whose population is almost entirely Catholic, uses Alla for "God".) Arab Christians, for example, use the terms Allāh al-ab (الله الأب) for God the Father, Allāh al-ibn (الله الابن) for God the Son, and Allāh ar-rūḥ al-quds (الله الروح القدس) for God the Holy Spirit. (See God in Christianity for the Christian concept of God.)"
Allah - Wikipedia

Right, please?

Regards
___________

1. 
   
   
   • "Allah". Random House Webster's Unabridged Dictionary.
   • ^ "Allah". Oxford Learner's Dictionaries.
   • ^ "God". Islam: Empire of Faith. PBS. Archived from the original on 27 March 2014. Retrieved 18 December 2010.
   • ^ "Islam and Christianity", Encyclopedia of Christianity (2001): Arabic-speaking Christians and Jews also refer to God as Allāh.
   • ^ Gardet, L. "Allah". In Bearman, P.; Bianquis, Th.; Bosworth, C.E.; van Donzel, E.; Heinrichs, W.P. (eds.). Encyclopaedia of Islam Online. Brill Online. Retrieved 2 May 2007.
   • ^ Zeki Saritoprak (2006). "Allah". In Oliver Leaman (ed.). The Qur'an: An Encyclopedia. Routledge. p. 34. ISBN 9780415326391.
   • ^ Vincent J. Cornell (2005). "God: God in Islam". In Lindsay Jones (ed.). Encyclopedia of Religion. 5 (2nd ed.). MacMillan Reference USA. p. 724.
   • ^ Jump up to:a b c d e f Christian Julien Robin (2012). Arabia and Ethiopia. In The Oxford Handbook of Late Antiquity. OUP USA. pp. 304–305. ISBN 9780195336931.
   • ^ Merriam-Webster. "Allah". Merriam-Webster. Archived from the original on 20 April 2014. Retrieved 25 February2012.
   • ^ Jump up to:a b Columbia Encyclopedia, Allah
   • ^ Jump up to:a b c d e f g "Allah." Encyclopædia Britannica. 2007. Encyclopædia Britannica
   • ^ Jump up to:a b c d e Encyclopedia of the Modern Middle East and North Africa, Allah
   • ^ Willis Barnstone, Marvin Meyer The Gnostic Bible: Revised and Expanded Edition Shambhala Publications 2009 ISBN 978-0-834-82414-0 page 531

31 Lewis, Bernard; Holt, P. M.; Holt, Peter R.; Lambton, Ann Katherine Swynford (1977). The Cambridge history of Islam. Cambridge, Eng: University Press. p. 32. ISBN 978-0-521-29135-4

I don't disagree that Arabic Christians and Jews use the term Allah, but I believe that the personal name of God in the Bible is different from God in the Quran. Is Allah the God of the Bible?

We are well aware that the name Allah is used by Arab speaking Christians for the God of the Bible. In fact, the root from which the name is derived, ilah, stems from the ancient Semitic languages, corresponding to the Mesopotamian IL, as well as the Hebrew-Aramaic EL, as in Ishma-el, Immanu-el, Isra-el. These terms were often used to refer to any deity worshiped as a high god, especially the chief deity amongst a pantheon of lesser gods. As such, the Holy Bible uses the term as just one of the many titles for Yahweh, the only true God.

Yet the problem arises from the fact that Muslims insist that Allah is not a title, but the personal name of the God of Islam. This becomes problematic since according to the Holy Bible the name of the God of Abraham is Yahweh/Jehovah, not Allah:



God spoke further to Moses and said to him, "I am Yahweh (YHVH) and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty; BUT BY MY NAME, YAHWEH, I did not make myself known to them." Exodus 6:2-3
Therefore, Christians can use Allah as a title or a generic noun for the true God, but not as the personal name for the God of the Holy Bible.

 

[Skywalker]

<yawn>

Using a biased and non-scholarly web page, written by a not-peer reviewed not-doctor with a degree from a fundigelical school over and over is not evidence; it’s biased anecdote.

What did Justin Martyr gain by becoming a Christian? He was a philosopher. Philosophy is associated with paganism. He was persecuted. He had plenty of opportunity to recant but he didnt. Who Wrote The Gospels? These 6 Ancient Sources Tell Us | Reasons for Jesus

3. Justin Martyr, Palestine. (ca. 100-165, The First Apology, 66)
“For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, This do in remembrance of Me, this is My body; and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, This is My blood; and gave it to them alone.”

Justin calls the Gospels the memoirs of the apostles and often quotes from them. Specifically, he quotes most often from the Gospel of Matthew, but also sometimes from Luke and the other familiar Gospels, albeit less obviously. These references include narrative material, including references to the narratives of Jesus’ trial, crucifixion and resurrection (See: Dialogue with Trypho 101:3; 102:3; 103:6; 104:1; 105:1, 5-6; 106:1, 3, 4; 107:1)

So who was Justin Martyr?

Justin was a Christian teacher and writer. As his name indicates, he died for his faith. He was a native of Samaria who moved to Ephesus to study philosophy. Justin was impressed with the character of Christians who were willing to be martyred for their faith. One day he met an older man who challenged his philosophies and shared the gospel with him. Justin became a believer. Justin is most famous for writing Apologies, which were addressed to the Roman Emperor Pius in the face of persecution of Christians. He sought to remove misconceptions about Christianity. His writings give us great insights into the beliefs and practices of 2nd century Christians.

 

[sojourner]

What did Justin Martyr gain by becoming a Christian? He was a philosopher. Philosophy is associated with paganism. He was persecuted. He had plenty of opportunity to recant but he didnt. Who Wrote The Gospels? These 6 Ancient Sources Tell Us | Reasons for Jesus

Less than impressive.
Less than cogent.
Less than on topic.

 

[Skywalker]

Less than impressive.
Less than cogent.
Less than on topic.

Iraenaeus said that Peter and Luke wrote the gospels.

4. Irenaeus of Lyons (ca. 130–200; Against Heresies 3.1.1–2; cf. Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History5.8.1–4):
“So Matthew brought out a written gospel among the Jews in their own style, when Peter and Paul were preaching the gospel at Rome and founding the church. But after their demise Mark himself, the disciple and recorder of Peter, has also handed on to us in writing what had been proclaimed by Peter. And Luke, the follower of Paul, set forth in a book the gospel that was proclaimed by him. Later John, the disciple of the Lord and the one who leaned against his chest, also put out a Gospel while residing in Ephesus of Asia.”

So who was Irenaeus?

Irenaeus was a bishop in France and was a student of Polycarp, who was a student of the apostle John. (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3.3.3) This puts him up close to an eyewitness and Gospel writer. He wrote extensively against the heresy known as Marcionism.

 

[sojourner]

Iraenaeus said that Peter and Luke wrote the gospels.

Yeah, yeah. I know all this. Irenaeus (you could spell it correctly) thought the world was flat, too.

 

[Skywalker]

Yeah, yeah. I know all this. Irenaeus (you could spell it correctly) thought the world was flat, too.

That doesn't mean that he was wrong about other topics.

 

[lukethethird]

The Scriptures are a different text from history books but it doesn't make a difference because the same standards of accuracy exist for each.

I have no idea what makes you believe such a thing.

 

[Colt]

Only the temporary mortal form of Jesus died, not the Son of God.

 

[Skywalker]

I have no idea what makes you believe such a thing.

The Bible already fits that standard of accuracy. Why would another higher standard need to be invented for it?

 

[sojourner]

That doesn't mean that he was wrong about other topics.

In this case, it seems he is also mistaken.

 

[paarsurrey]

Jesus ressurected because the prophet Isaiah said that he would prolong his days. Jesus couldn't both die without a ressurection and prolong his days.

Did Jesus quote from Isaiah specifically in an unequivocal, straightforward and unambiguous manner about resurrection of Jesus, please?
If yes, then kindly quote from Jesus, please. Right friend, please?

Regards

 

[Skywalker]

Did Jesus quote from Isaiah specifically in an unequivocal, straightforward and unambiguous manner about resurrection of Jesus, please?
If yes, then kindly quote from Jesus, please. Right friend, please?

Regards

Why would Jesus have needed to mention the prophecies about his death and ressurection? Jesus came to save us and to teach us how to live and everything he said had an order and a purpose, including his parables. He mentioned the temple being raised after three days and where he was going the Pharisees wouldn't see him. There was no need for him to also mention the prophecies.

 

[lukethethird]

The Bible already fits that standard of accuracy. Why would another higher standard need to be invented for it?

History and theology are not the same thing so one standard does not apply to both.

 

[Skywalker]

History and theology are not the same thing so one standard does not apply to both.

There's no evidence that a higher standard exists in determining if the Bible is true than in determining if history books are true. The Case for Christ – Reasons to Believe in the Reality of Christ

Did Jesus—and Jesus Alone—Match the Identity of the Messiah?
So far in Strobel’s interviews with scholars we have affirmed that Jesus did claim to be God, He wasn’t insane or emotionally disturbed, and He did things that only God would do. Now we want to review Strobel’s interview with Louis Lapides, a Jewish believer as to whether Jesus actually fit the Old Testament picture of what the Messiah would be like.

One of the important pieces of evidence that convinced Lapides that Jesus was the long-looked-for Messiah was the fulfillment of prophecy. There are over forty prophecies concerning the coming Messiah, and Jesus fulfilled every one. Some say this is just coincidence. But, the odds of just one person fulfilling even five of these prophesies is less than one chance in one hundred million billion—a number millions of times greater than the number of all people who have ever lived on earth.{5}

But maybe this isn’t all it seems. Objections to the correlation of Jesus’ life to the prophecies of the Messiah fall into four categories. The first is the coincidence argument, which we just dispelled. Perhaps the most frequently heard argument is that the gospel writers fabricated the details to make it appear that Jesus was the Messiah. But the gospels were written close enough in time to the actual events that, if false, critics could have exposed the details. Certainly this is true of those in the Jewish community who had every reason to squash this new religion before it got started.

Third, there is the suggestion that Jesus intentionally fulfilled these many prophecies so as to make Himself appear as the Messiah. That’s conceivable for some of the prophecies, such as Jesus’ riding into Jerusalem on a donkey, but for others it’s impossible. How could Jesus arrange for his ancestry, or place of birth, or the method of execution, or that soldiers would gamble for his clothing? The list goes on.

Fourth, perhaps Christians have just ripped these so-called prophecies out of context and have misinterpreted them. When asked, Lapides sighed and replied:

You know, I go through books that people write to try to tear down what we believe. That’s not fun to do, but I spend the time to look at each objection individually and then to research the context and the wording in the original language. And every single time, the prophecies have stood up and shown themselves to be true.

 

[paarsurrey]

I don't disagree that Arabic Christians and Jews use the term Allah, but I believe that the personal name of God in the Bible is different from God in the Quran. Is Allah the God of the Bible?

This is also a wrong notion, I understand, one should leave blind faith believing and start the correct believing based on good reasons , please. Right friend, please?

Regards

 

[Skywalker]

This is also a wrong notion, I understand, one should leave blind faith believing and start the correct believing based on good reasons , please. Right friend, please?

Regards

If nobody knows is faith on this topic is right or wrong, it could also be right. Allah of Islam, Is He Yahweh God of the Bible?

There is evidence in the Bible that Yahweh is the personal name of God and evidence in the Quran that Allah is the personal name of God. Those teachings contradict each other.

Some introductory remarks are necessary before we proceed to address Abualrub’s claims. My own personal view regarding the use of the word Allah is that if treated as a generic noun, a common noun denoting any deity, then it is acceptable as a reference for the true God of the Holy Bible. However, Islamic theology does not treat Allah as a generic noun, but views it as their god’s own personal name. In Muslim thinking, Allah functions as the proper name of the deity, much like the name Peter or John. This is where the problem lies since, according to the Holy Bible, the one noun which functions as the true God’s proper name is Yahweh, not Allah. The fact that Muslims view the name Allah as a proper noun, as opposed to a common noun descriptive applicable to any deity, and that the Quran nowhere uses the name Yahweh in connection to god, is sufficient evidence to show that we are not dealing with the same God revealed in the Holy Bible. This will become more evident as we examine the etymology of the word Allah, and the manner in which the word was used prior to the advent of Islam.


The Syriac and Arabic translations of this Psalm use alah and ilah in place of el. Neither word corresponds exactly to Allah, even though they are related. We will explain this more thoroughly later on in the paper.

And now Jesus’ words, taken from the Markan parallel:

"And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, ‘Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?’ which means, ‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me (ho theos mou ho theos mou eis ti me egkatelipes)?’ Mark 15:34

Arabic- wa fi assaa3ati atthaalitati, sarakha yasou3 bisawtin 3adhiymin: ‘alowiy ‘alowiy, lamaa shabaqtaniy? ‘ay: ‘ilaahiy ‘ilaahiy, limaadhaa taraktaniy?

Again, the words used are Aramaic eloi, Greek theos, and Arabic ilah respectively. All these words are used generically to refer to any person or thing, and not just for the true God.

 

[paarsurrey]

Why would Jesus have needed to mention the prophecies about his death and ressurection? Jesus came to save us and to teach us how to live and everything he said had an order and a purpose, including his parables. He mentioned the temple being raised after three days and where he was going the Pharisees wouldn't see him. There was no need for him to also mention the prophecies.

Magenta above ^, please.
If Jesus had been to die and resurrect, I understand, then he would have definitely told it in clear terms, please. Right friend, please?
Why involve Jesus into things he never told would happen to him, please? I figure, one's motive to get Jesus killed for one's sins is very selfish, I must say, please. Right friend, please?

Regards

 

[Skywalker]

Magenta above ^, please.
If Jesus had been to die and resurrect, I understand, then he would have definitely told it in clear terms, please. Right friend, please?
Why involve Jesus into things he never told would happen to him, please? I figure, one's motive to get Jesus killed for one's sins is very selfish, I must say, please. Right friend, please?

Regards

Jesus said in John 8:21 "Where I am going, you cannot come." There was no need him to mention the prophecies at that point.

 

[Muffled]

I don't believe the swoon theory because it has no historical proof that supports it. The beliefs about Jesus in the Quran are eisegesis. Not My Jesus Part 2: A Defense Of Orthodox Christology | Reasons for Jesus

I believe that is false. The eisegesis is about the Qu'ran not in it.

I believe the swoon theory is completely non-scriptural.