sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
You can't use this for comparison, because this refers to debt-slavery, which was in place to counter the heinous practice of usury.
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Did God say that?! I Rape in the bible
- Thread starter Zhakir
- Start date
Zhakir
Peace&Tolerance
Because
Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasnt the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)
??
Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasnt the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)
??
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Look at the word, "Fulfill." Do you have any idea what that means in this context? Look at the phrase "smallest part." Do you have any idea what that means in this context? If you do, you will see that Jesus approves of the intent of the Law and prophets, which is that they are tools to return us to God. The smallest part refers to the core of them, which is love, compassion, mercy. Jesus, himself, fulfills that love, compassion and mercy. Following him is to use the Law correctly -- that is, as a tool to return us to God. Following the letter of the Law is to use them incorrectly.
Therefore, Jesus has every objection to cruelty of any kind, because God is not cruelty, God is love.
Once again, Zhak: :foot:
Zhakir
Peace&Tolerance
By the way,If jesus didn't say that, does this mean that bible isn't the word of God\jesus? if they are one
and it's just people's writing as we all believe.I'm now sure now no one believes in trinity.
-----------
Once again,Where is your proof to your claim "the bible is invalid now for christians"?
And why did God -even if we agree it's only for that time-Command to kill people?
You will not enter Heaven if you ignore A dot ,least commandment,of the Bible
According to it.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Zhakir, read and reread Sojourners post #764 -- until you understand.
You are flogging a dead horse, man.
Not only that, but the horse has already turned to dust and you are standing there flogging the dirt.
Study what Sojourner is trying to tell you if, of course, you actually want to understand.
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Don Penguinoini
Modi.
Nnnna! The horse has fully biodegraded and over the few million years has now turned into oil...
Zhakir
Peace&Tolerance
Sorry,contradictions make no sense to me,my dear Bible disbeliever.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
No. It just means that "Jesus didn't say it." The Bible probably isn't "The word of God," in the sense that you mean. That doesn't mean that it's not scripture. It doesn't mean that it doesn't carry some kind of authority for us. It doesn't mean that God isn't revealed in some way therein. But the preponderance of the Bible just simply is not "commandments of God for us to follow ... or else!" Once again, the Bible is the witness of our spiritual forebears of how they perceived God.
Because Jesus is God Incarnate, because we follow him, and, because when we do, we become one Body in him, then, in a sense, the Church is one with God. We speak for God, and the texts we use speak for God, through the lens of who we perceive ourselves to be. Therefore, we can say authoritatively, that there is a Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Why? Because the Church, who is the Body of Christ on earth, has spoken, and we reveal that truth (hopefully) by our witness -- through the way we live out that truth in the world. The Bible is one tool of that witness.
The ancient commandments found in the Bible are not hard-and fast. They are useful only when they point us toward God. When they don't do that for whatever reason, then they are no longer useful, and they are no longer binding. Christians believe that God established a new covenant with us. The old Covenant was righteousness through the Law. The new Covenant is grace through Christ. In other words, the Law of righteousness has been fulfilled by grace that is found in Christ. The Law isn't invalid -- but it is fulfilled. That means that we no longer have to do such-and-such in order to attain righteousness, because righteousness has been attained for us.
It was said that God commanded to kill people, because that's how the ancients perceived God -- as a warrior/king. but we know now that God is not a warrior/king. God is a loving father.
We just are not beholden to the Bible, as you perceive it, in the way that you perceive it. That does not make us "wrong." It does make us different. That's why you have so much trouble understanding where we're coming from. We just don't fit into your model.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Zhak, the contradiction exists only in your mind.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
You're reading waaaaaay too litaralistically: "If the Bible says "do A," then it's "do A." But what Jesus is saying here is this: "What happens if doing 'A' harms someone, or fails to point you toward God? Doing 'A' is supposed to put your attention on God. But if doing 'A' only puts your attention on your own self, what good is it? It's not the actual doing of 'A' that really matters. It's why you're doing 'A' that matters.
If killing enemies does not point you toward God, then don't kill enemies. I'm telling you to love your enemies. That will point you toward God."
Don Penguinoini
Modi.
You're still trying? Wow, you are a patient man!
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
No, but I'm stubborn as H.E. Double-toothpicks...
"MUST...NOT...LET...ZHAK...WIN...BY...AT...TRITION!"
::pants and sweats with great effort::
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
If my cold wasn't so bad, I would be pounding him into the ground. Alas, I can't deal with it right now.
*Runs off to get more drugs and kleenex*
BTW: Sojourner, I owe you some frubals, when I am reloaded.
Keep up the good work.
Don Penguinoini
Modi.
The moment he made his first post, he had already lost...
Zhakir
Peace&Tolerance
So what about
By the way,If jesus didn't say that, does this mean that bible isn't the word of God\jesus? if they are one
and it's just people's writing as we all believe.I'm now sure now no one believes in trinity.
-----------
Once again,Where is your proof to your claim "the bible is invalid now for christians"?
And why did God -even if we agree it's only for that time-Command to kill people?
You will not enter Heaven if you ignore A dot ,least commandment,of the Bible
According to it.
By the way,If jesus didn't say that, does this mean that bible isn't the word of God\jesus? if they are one
and it's just people's writing as we all believe.I'm now sure now no one believes in trinity.
-----------
Once again,Where is your proof to your claim "the bible is invalid now for christians"?
And why did God -even if we agree it's only for that time-Command to kill people?
You will not enter Heaven if you ignore A dot ,least commandment,of the Bible
According to it.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
::sigh::
Read post #769. It answers these questions.
I will respond (again) to your last statement.
We do keep the least commandment -- not of the Bible -- but of the Law (they are two different entities, after all), when we love God and love neighbor.
Because the intent of the Law is to point us to God. If we kill people when we're not a member of a warring society, under a warrior/king God, how does that point us toward God? If we love our enemies, though, that does point us toward God, because we understand God to be a loving Father.
Zhakir
Peace&Tolerance
Tell me about it,i told you every christian has his own idiology of christianity and the bible,but when you guys will stop contradicting each other.
Just keep one statement.
:yes:
Though many christians claim to disagree,yet i don't believe them,but i believe in what you said,it isn't the word of God at all
The glorious Quran ch.2 v.79
Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woeto them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.
Buttons*
Glass half Panda'd
So, what makes you think that the Qur'an is the word of God? It's really no different than the Bible. Besides, that book is full of itself - and is probably lying. Prove to me that it's not lying in general.
Not about science. Science is irrelevant in a religious text - and the "science" in the Qur'an isn't even helpful in that regard. You merely twist the words to find what you think is in there. Why would we want to treat the religious text like a science text book unless it is ONLY a science text book?
Maybe the Qur'an was only meant as a pseudo-science manual and nothing more.
No, don't spout evilbible.com
I want YOU to tell ME why you think the Qur'an is true WITHOUT resorting to bs. I bet you cant' do it.
Zhakir
Peace&Tolerance
*Quran speaks about scientific facts,which were discoverd recently and couldn't be known at the time of Muhammad (pbuh),proving that it's the word of God
www.quranmiracles.com
*Quarn doesn't have a single scientific error or a contradiction,and i challenge any one to point out a single teaching of the Quran which is aginst humanity as whole.
Quran is free of errors
Women In Islam : WomenInIslam.ws
Welcome: The key to understanding Islam
while the bible is full of scientific errors,because it wasn't written by the creator rather by people who lived 2000 years ago who were cluless about science ,and who were evil to command people to do such acts,and forget what they say, and they are not one person so the bible is full of contradictions
www.evilbible.com
Status of women in Christian Society - Status of Women Throughout the Ages - WomenInIslam.ws
I am a fundamentalist muslim,following the fundamentals of my religion which are perfect(if you disagree then explain to us and we shall clearify)
There used to be fundamentalist christians or jews who,followed the evil teachings of the bible to spread christianity,or who Murder in the Bible and believed in the scientific errors (but not the contradictions because that's impossible).
but not most of christians, Now a days at least.
This is the difference
A fundamintalist muslim is a perfect human being according to God.
A fundamintalist christian doesn't exist,if followed these teachings of evil people he will be executed or go to jail trust me,and hell fire.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
You just love to take things out of context, don't you!
By posting my quotation out of context, you have skewed what I meant and misrepresented me. Here's the part you posted:
If you're going to debate, at least be honest about it.
The Bible "probably isn't the word of God in the sense that you mean."
"You mean isn't the same as "at all."
I went on to say that the Bible is, in some sense, the word of God, because the Church speaks for God.
Then you go on to quote something that is not germane to this particular topic:
The fact that there is diversity in Xy has always been the case, and is not a valid reason for the claim that we are a "false religion." No matter what delusions you may have about, or what you may twist to "reveal," the Bible.
By posting my quotation out of context, you have skewed what I meant and misrepresented me. Here's the part you posted:
And then you said,
What I had originally posted was this:
This:
Is not what I said, at all.
If you're going to debate, at least be honest about it.
The Bible "probably isn't the word of God in the sense that you mean."
"You mean isn't the same as "at all."
I went on to say that the Bible is, in some sense, the word of God, because the Church speaks for God.
Then you go on to quote something that is not germane to this particular topic:
Well, we didn't write "the book" and then claim "This is from Allah." We compiled the writings from several sources and then said, "Here is our witness." The worst you can accuse us of, as far as the Koran is concerned is that some of us said, "This is from God" -- not "Allah."
The fact that there is diversity in Xy has always been the case, and is not a valid reason for the claim that we are a "false religion." No matter what delusions you may have about, or what you may twist to "reveal," the Bible.