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Did God ever command to slavery per Quran?

firedragon

Veteran Member
"And marry such of you as are solitary and the pious of your slaves and maid-servants. If they be poor, Allah will enrich them of His bounty. Allah is of ample means, Aware."

Think about this question and respond clearly if you wish to.

How do you understand a word like "Ibadhikum"?
 

sooda

Veteran Member
@Link You've certainly done your homework and bring some interesting points. I have read the Quran, but am by no means an expert on it. I am much more familiar with the Christian Bible having been brought up in a Christian family in the USA. Regarding slavery; IMHO, I don't think God approved of slavery so much as it was just tolerated in the times that the Bible and Quran were written. I see many places in scriptures that talk about slavery, but I don't see anywhere that God calls it good.

Islam says that God smiles when a slave is freed.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I know this, what I mean is, that it's a contradiction to it's foundation, just as the story of Saul is a contradiction to it's foundation. There is a verse in Surah the Cow, that basically says it's bad enough you take them as captives/slaves and worse then that, you taking them out of their homes was already forbidden. This is talking about all the so called wars against people that the Torah justifies, Quran disagrees with that obviously. But the way it's phrase, "bad enough you take them as captives" and "worse, it wasn't even allowed to attack them in the first place".
I do not know enough of the Quran to agree or disagree. There may be other verses that support slavery, as a result I will take your claims about slavery and the Quran with a grain of salt. My point was the the Torah especially supports slavery more than it opposes it. At best it it only against the enslavement of Hebrews.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I quote from Quran:
"And marry such of you as are solitary and the pious of your slaves and maid-servants. If they be poor, Allah will enrich them of His bounty. Allah is of ample means, Aware."


It can be "your" has to do with from believers, so as to not confuse the servants of God and maid-servants of God from believers, as opposed to any servant of God or maiden-servant of God. And if they be poor, well during that time, almost all Muhajareen were poor and even the originally rich, lost most of their business or all of it, when they emigrated. While "if they be poor" doesn't apply to slaves, they got nothing brother, they are definitely poor starting with nothing.

Another possibility is that it refers to those who are obligated to serve your sexual needs, and hence, be referring to those under Muta and hence are slaves to a person as that person would be slave to them (it's mutual slavery as far as sex goes which sounds kinky). In this case, it would be saying, as for those who you do muta with, and you find them to be pious, then extend it to a marriage. This may not be an obligation, but a wise advice from God!
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I do not know enough of the Quran to agree or disagree. There may be other verses that support slavery, as a result I will take your claims about slavery and the Quran with a grain of salt. My point was the the Torah especially supports slavery more than it opposes it. At best it it only against the enslavement of Hebrews.
Well this is what the thread is for. I propose the concept of Muta makes most verses being appearing to allow sex with slaves, to be really about Muta. Then are other edge cases, where, Satan and his sorcery may give us an impression it's about slavery, but we have to see if it can be recited a different way.

So bring all verses you have in mind allowing slavery, and we will see if there is or isn't an alternative more reasonable translations.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
I disagree, for example, I quoted a verse, that shows it was not allowed to keep the war captives as captives after the war settles, and even during the time, either free them by ransom or generosity. And there other verses that even give the condition, if they accept Islam after being captive and pledge to not fight Muslims to let them go.

Then there are even verses about what happens, if you let them go, and they go fighting Muslims again. Even there it says, as for those who leave Islam, but now, don't want to fight Muslims, to let them go and if they offer peace to not fight them.

So this was during war, and after war, it's clear the verse I showed, to let them go. And even captives are not allowed for a Prophet ever unless there was massive slaughter in the land, in case, it becomes necessary. But like I showed, the verse, clearly says to let them go when the fury of war is over.
Slaves are not only war captives, but are servants who were purchased or sold too, right? Look at slavery that existed in America 300 years ago. What does Quran say about them? Show me a verse that talks about forbidding buying and selling slaves generally anywhere. Is not Quran a Book for the whole mankind? The verse you quoted is only talking about specific situations in wars. Why do you think it can be extended to all other situations. Allah is not shy, if He wanted to say specifically slavery is forbidden, He would say so in Quran clearly, so, there remained no questions or debates!

"You are forbidden to have slaves under all situations, and you are to free every slaves"
See, even I can say such a clear sentence. But if Allah wanted to completely forbid slavery in Quran, do you think He was not able to Express it so clearly, as to not remain any doubts? Consider for example adultry in Quran. Allah clearly forbids it, and remains no questions or debates. Do you know what I mean?
 
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Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I want to put out there. I believe in human rights first, and am a human first. If someone can prove Quran definitely allows slavery, I will leave this religion, not out of hatred but because I can't accept slavery being allowed by God at any time in history.
 
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firedragon

Veteran Member
Slaves are not only war captives, but are servants who were purchased or sold too, right? Look at slavery that existed in America 300 years ago. What does Quran say about them? Show me a verse that talks about forbidding buying and selling slaves generally anywhere. Is not Quran a Book for the whole mankind? The verse you quoted is only talking about specific situations in wars. Why do you think it can be expended to all other situations. Allah is not shy, if He wanted to say specifically forbids slavery, He would say so in Quran clearly, so, there remained no questions or debates!

"You are forbidden to have slaves under all situations, and you are to free every slaves"
See, even I can say such a clear sentence. But if Allah wanted to completely forbid slavery in Quran, do you think He was not able to Express it so clearly, as to not remain any doubts? Consider for example adult in Quran. Allah clearly forbids it, and remains no questions or debates. Do you know what I mean?

Whats the arabic word for slave?
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Slaves are not only war captives, but are servants who were purchased or sold too, right? Look at slavery that existed in America 300 years ago. What does Quran say about them? Show me a verse that talks about forbidding buying and selling slaves generally anywhere. Is not Quran a Book for the whole mankind? The verse you quoted is only talking about specific situations in wars. Why do you think it can be expended to all other situations. Allah is not shy, if He wanted to say specifically forbids slavery, He would say so in Quran clearly, so, there remained no questions or debates!

"You are forbidden to have slaves under all situations, and you are to free every slaves"
See, even I can say such a clear sentence. But if Allah wanted to completely forbid slavery in Quran, do you think He was not able to Express it so clearly, as to not remain any doubts? Consider for example adult in Quran. Allah clearly forbids it, and remains no questions or debates. Do you know what I mean?

Actually, you are making conditions on God. Quran is such that it contains all information and human rights and commands and even what is liked by God for them to do. It's not to be approached however by putting conditions on God. Rather, like true Istikhara (and not the divination thing going on now which is forbidden in Quran) is to ask God to make you see for your need a clear sign in Quran by which you recognize what you must do.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
I want to put out there. I believe in human rights first, and am a human first. If someone can prove Quran definitely allows slavery, I will leave this religion, not out hatred but because I can't accept slavery being allowed by God at any time in history.
Just because Quran does not completely forbids slavery, it does not mean it is a false religion. Allah reveals His commandments in accordance with capacity of the people of the time. Revelations of God has been always progressive. He improved humanity gradually by sending new commandments once in a while. This why, after Noah He sent Abraham, then Moses, then Jesus, later Muhammad. And I believe more recently the Bab and Bahaullah. And it will always continues.

In Kitab Aqdas, which Bahais believe it to be from Allah, He days:

"It is forbidden you to trade in slaves, be they men or women. It is not for him who is himself a servant to buy another of God’s servants, and this hath been prohibited in His Holy Tablet. Thus, by His mercy, hath the commandment been recorded by the Pen of justice. Let no man exalt himself above another; all are but bondslaves before the Lord, and all exemplify the truth that there is none other God but Him. He, verily, is the All-Wise, Whose wisdom encompasseth all things."


It does not mean that Muhammad did not know or could not forbid slavery. It is just that, people at the time of Muhammad were not ready to accept and implement it yet.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Just because Quran does not completely forbids slavery, it does not mean it is a false religion. Allah reveals His commandments in accordance with capacity of the people of the time. Revelations of God has been always progressive. He improved humanity gradually by sending new commandments once in a while. This why, after Noah He sent Abraham, then Moses, then Jesus, later Muhammad. And I believe more recently the Bab and Bahaullah. And it will always continues.

In Kitab Aqdas, which Bahais believe it to be from Allah, He days:

"It is forbidden you to trade in slaves, be they men or women. It is not for him who is himself a servant to buy another of God’s servants, and this hath been prohibited in His Holy Tablet. Thus, by His mercy, hath the commandment been recorded by the Pen of justice. Let no man exalt himself above another; all are but bondslaves before the Lord, and all exemplify the truth that there is none other God but Him. He, verily, is the All-Wise, Whose wisdom encompasseth all things."


It does not mean that Muhammad did not know or could not forbid slavery. It is just that, people at the time of Muhammad were not ready to accept and implement it yet.

I don't believe he wasn't ready to implement it, and I don't believe from Adam till the Mahdi, any of God's chosen allowed or didn't condemn it. I actually believe Quran forbid it, I haven't shown all verses to do this subject. In fact, when you begin to look for something in Quran you tend to find not only are there verses about it but reasoning and why it's forbidden.

I will be posting this, but let's see if anyone can show a verse that allows it!

A slave is robbed all freedom, can't even go study under who he wants. This is maximum injustice, which I don't believe God would've ever tolerated at any time in history.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Just because Quran does not completely forbids slavery, it does not mean it is a false religion. Allah reveals His commandments in accordance with capacity of the people of the time. Revelations of God has been always progressive. He improved humanity gradually by sending new commandments once in a while. This why, after Noah He sent Abraham, then Moses, then Jesus, later Muhammad. And I believe more recently the Bab and Bahaullah. And it will always continues.

In Kitab Aqdas, which Bahais believe it to be from Allah, He days:

"It is forbidden you to trade in slaves, be they men or women. It is not for him who is himself a servant to buy another of God’s servants, and this hath been prohibited in His Holy Tablet. Thus, by His mercy, hath the commandment been recorded by the Pen of justice. Let no man exalt himself above another; all are but bondslaves before the Lord, and all exemplify the truth that there is none other God but Him. He, verily, is the All-Wise, Whose wisdom encompasseth all things."


It does not mean that Muhammad did not know or could not forbid slavery. It is just that, people at the time of Muhammad were not ready to accept and implement it yet.

Brother. It is just too evident that you have set your belief on a very highly superficial knowledge of the Quran and you are not willing to explore a centimetre. Agree or not, you have not understood the OP.

THE QURAN CLEARLY AND DEFINITELY FORBIDS "YOU" TO HAVE ANY SLAVES.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Abd is like Abdullah... Servant of God or slave of God.. I don't know the Arabic word for worshiper.

Worshipper of God uses same word. The point is Arabic is highly contextual.

"A public servant"
A wife and husband sexually having authority on one another and they been servants to one another in this sense has a meaning.

Therefore, let's not be hasty in how we approach something that claims to be God's book. Mistranslations can be used purposely or accidentally to hide God's light to humans.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The one thing that Arabic is not as highly contextual with regards to words, is love. It has so many words for it, and they all have different implications.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Abd is like Abdullah... Servant of God or slave of God.. I don't know the Arabic word for worshiper.

Abd can mean worshiper, servant, slave. Have you ever wondered why one would only choose the meaning of slave when it comes to proving one verse in the Quran approves of slavery?

(I am not actually questioning you. I just wish you to follow the reasoning since you responded instead of the person who i actually asked this question from purely to point out how mistaken he is)

Secondly, lets take for arguments sake that Abd could only mean slave (Again, just for this argument), how do you say "Slaves amid you"?
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Worshipper of God uses same word. The point is Arabic is highly contextual.

"A public servant"
A wife and husband sexually having authority on one another and they been servants to one another in this sense has a meaning.

Therefore, let's not be hasty in how we approach something that claims to be God's book. Mistranslations can be used purposely or accidentally to hide God's light to humans.

That was absolutely right. Absolutely.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Abd can mean worshiper, servant, slave. Have you ever wondered why one would only choose the meaning of slave when it comes to proving one verse in the Quran approves of slavery?

(I am not actually questioning you. I just wish you to follow the reasoning since you responded instead of the person who i actually asked this question from purely to point out how mistaken he is)

Secondly, lets take for arguments sake that Abd could only mean slave (Again, just for this argument), how do you say "Slaves amid you"?

I don't know.. and I really can't follow Link's argument.

I am not a Muslim but as I have read the Koran I thought slavery was frowned upon and considered normal for the times.
 
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