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Featured Did God ever command to slavery per Quran?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Link, Jan 22, 2020.

  1. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    Ismail and "Hajar"

    One of the things I noticed in Quran, is that Quran says not a word regarding Hajar who supposedly was a slave of Abraham and Sarah and who Abraham had Ismail through. Somethings to recall is that according to the Torah, Abraham had other children before that, but it was pertaining to the covenant and chosen guides type children he and Sarah were awaiting.

    Of course, it's easier to dismiss the importance of Ismail despite clear words praising him in the Torah and the Twelve princes promised in his offspring, which is in context of the Kingship bestowed by God and not worldly type authority, if you make up a story that Ismail was not born from Sarah. Sarah was a holy lady at the level of Abraham. So it seems to follow, if God wanted Ismail to be as important as Isaac, he would have made him born from Sarah.

    In the hadiths it is said that Sarah was so severely jealous of Hajar that he made her and Ismail to be settled by themselves. The Quran however, never confirms this, and instead shows there was a divine purpose and plan from settling Ismail there and Hajar not mentioned anywhere.

    Implications of Hajar being a slave

    Aside from trying to be belittle the covenant of Ismail, there is the problem of slavery. Right from the start, you have Abraham, God's elite and chosen and guided and enlightened, having a slave. You have Sarah so angry at this poor slave and so jealous. It's a story that not only justifies cruelty in the form of banishing Hajar, it also, allows slavery.

    If Quran were to do away with this notion, it must provide alternative story. The alternative story, was the Abraham and Ismail built the Kaba and were preparing the way for the Messenger to come from Ismail. Not a mention of Hajjar and alternative more noble purpose of settling them there is provided.

    Story of Imam Reda (as) and slaves by the Sultan

    There is ahadith about Imam Reda (as) where the Sultan gets the slaves of his to all eat. Imam Reda (as) says they should be eating with them and there is no ranks except by Taqwa and says that ALL are in fact servants of God. Now this has significance, in that, this is what Moses (as) is quoted to say regarding the slaves of Pharaoh in Quran. He says "let the servants of God go with me", and the fact they are servants of God is used to argue they shouldn't be slaves.

    In this regard Imam Reda (as) is only reminding of a fact in Quran, but the fact, the story of Moses freeing the children of Israel is a story, that humans should not be enslaved as we are servants of God. Yes part of that was they were believers and it's upon God to deliver the believers eventually from their oppressors but aside from that, slavery was wrong and clear injustice of Pharaoh is seen in this regard where he heightens a portion of his people and lowers a portion of his people, and this said to be mischief in the earth.

    Malakat Aymanihim - And translations

    Language is contextual, and I believe the translation should be "who they have authority (to have sex with) through their oaths (of either marriage or Muta)". Malakat aymanim mentioned as alternative to marriage is due to Muta, which is a relationship allowed in Islam but has conditions like if there is a child, the father is responsible to make sure it's raised well, and takes responsibility as a father over it. It maybe there were even further rules that have been lost like it might've been obligatory to extend to a full marriage if a child was ensued but I don't know. So many things lost in Islam it's hard to say.

    What is noted is that through verses, this works both way. The Husband is that to the wife as well, so what is making sense to me, is the wife actually has the right to demand sex from the husband just like the husband has the right to. In fact, the mother is also probably as responsible over the child as the father through Muta, which to me suggests there are some lost rules in this regard. But there is no doubt in my mind that slavery is not what is meant by this term.

    What was to be done with war captives?

    An easy way to advocate slavery is to say, there was no other way back then to deal with war captives.

    فَإِذَا لَقِيتُمُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا فَضَرْبَ الرِّقَابِ حَتَّىٰ إِذَا أَثْخَنْتُمُوهُمْ فَشُدُّوا الْوَثَاقَ فَإِمَّا مَنًّا بَعْدُ وَإِمَّا فِدَاءً حَتَّىٰ تَضَعَ الْحَرْبُ أَوْزَارَهَا ۚ ذَٰلِكَ وَلَوْ يَشَاءُ اللَّهُ لَانْتَصَرَ مِنْهُمْ وَلَٰكِنْ لِيَبْلُوَ بَعْضَكُمْ بِبَعْضٍ ۗ وَالَّذِينَ قُتِلُوا فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ فَلَنْ يُضِلَّ أَعْمَالَهُمْ {4}
    [Shakir 47:4] So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to be lost.

    Two options:
    (1)Free as a favor (grace)
    (2)let them ransom themselves

    As for (2), it's only valid to do this while there is war. So (1) becomes an obligatory command if the war terminates.

    This is the true way Islam advocates to have dealt with war captives in the past right there written in that verse.

    Therefore, this verse not only does away with the need of holding them as slaves, it shows the proper way to conduct yourself with war captives and not to make them pay the price forever due to having gone to war with the Muslims.
     
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  2. leov

    leov Well-Known Member

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    "And when she saw that she had conceived, she looked with contempt on her mistress" Gen 16
     
    #2 leov, Jan 22, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
  3. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    I realize this is in the Torah, but Quran doesn't confirm this, and provides even a whole alternative reason as to why Ismail settled in Becca/Mecca.
     
  4. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    @Link You've certainly done your homework and bring some interesting points. I have read the Quran, but am by no means an expert on it. I am much more familiar with the Christian Bible having been brought up in a Christian family in the USA. Regarding slavery; IMHO, I don't think God approved of slavery so much as it was just tolerated in the times that the Bible and Quran were written. I see many places in scriptures that talk about slavery, but I don't see anywhere that God calls it good.
     
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  5. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    I see, but I believe Quran condemns it and forbids it in multiple places. I believe the Torah implicitly does with the injustice of Pharaoh and to let God's servants or people go.
     
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  6. leov

    leov Well-Known Member

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    As far I can understand the Cow Quran confirms Torah in principle.
     
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  7. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    Not all of it, for example, it has a totally opposite story of Saul/Talut and Samuel way of appointing him. There is other things it disagrees about, but that is one of most important disagreements.
     
  8. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    I agree that the Torah does as demonstrated in the Egyptian captivity and eventual liberation of the Hebrew people. The New Testament is a bit weaker on this. As far as the Qurans position the verses you provided support your view as well. Good thread:)
     
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  9. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe Muslims misconstrue disbelievers to mean disbelievers in Islam but I believe it simply means disbelievers in God. Christians and Jews don't fall in that category.
     
  10. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Yet it also more than implicitly endorses it. It also tells the Hebrews who they can buy slaves from. Who they can and cannot enslave. And even some exceptions, such as how to trick a fellow Hebrew into being a slave for the rest of his life. That sounds a lot more like endorsement than condemnation to me.
     
  11. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. I will be after this thread settles, be making a thread on discussion on women in the Quran and trying to relieve some misconceptions of some verses (like the translation that allowing hitting them) and also discuss edge cases where it appears to be making it as if women shouldn't be given as much importance and rights or that they are more memory loss prone then men etc, which is all not true according to my views.
     
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  12. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    Ibelieve I hate to break it to you but the Qu'ran is not the only book of God.
     
  13. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    I know this, what I mean is, that it's a contradiction to it's foundation, just as the story of Saul is a contradiction to it's foundation. There is a verse in Surah the Cow, that basically says it's bad enough you take them as captives/slaves and worse then that, you taking them out of their homes was already forbidden. This is talking about all the so called wars against people that the Torah justifies, Quran disagrees with that obviously. But the way it's phrase, "bad enough you take them as captives" and "worse, it wasn't even allowed to attack them in the first place".
     
  14. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe that says a lot about a book that is trapped in ancient times. We have a living Word.
     
  15. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    This is true, but I believe in the case of the Bible, it has many contradictions, and Quran shows the foundations of the Bible to be true, but shows where it goes wrong as well.
     
  16. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    One other way to look at this maybe that after the Quran was written down (revealed by God or not) maybe a few centuries later people tried to insert slavery into it. If someone tries to take a Quranic approach (Quran bil Quran) rather than judging the Quran by language and stories postdating it by several centuries, you may not find any kind of link to any kind of slavery at all. Its a bit technical.

    E.g. The word Rikab means observation. It could also mean centre of observation. This nature of this word being a centre of observation has made it mean "Neck". So this "Neck" meaning has made people think it means "Slave". Thats way way too farfetched.

    Anyway, if you delve into the monotheism of the Quran, you can not be a master of anything or anyone. When i say master i mean master-slave relationships. Thats a direct violation of the monotheism of the Quran.
     
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  17. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    No, God did not command slavery in the Quran. However Quran does not strongly condemns slavery, and in certain situations makes it acceptable to have slave.

    I quote from Quran:
    "And marry such of you as are solitary and the pious of your slaves and maid-servants. If they be poor, Allah will enrich them of His bounty. Allah is of ample means, Aware."


    But I agree, it encourages to free slaves as a good deed, but does not forbid slavery. Similarly, Quran does not forbid having more than one wife, and in many situations allows 4 wives, but it says it is better to have one wife.
     
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  18. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    The last line is true per Quran, this is why Imam Reda (as) emphasizing they are slaves of God and why Moses is quoted to say "let the slaves of God go with me".
     
  19. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Thats interesting. Thanks.
     
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  20. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    I disagree, for example, I quoted a verse, that shows it was not allowed to keep the war captives as captives after the war settles, and even during the time, either free them by ransom or generosity. And there other verses that even give the condition, if they accept Islam after being captive and pledge to not fight Muslims to let them go.

    Then there are even verses about what happens, if you let them go, and they go fighting Muslims again. Even there it says, as for those who leave Islam, but now, don't want to fight Muslims, to let them go and if they offer peace to not fight them.

    So this was during war, and after war, it's clear the verse I showed, to let them go. And even captives are not allowed for a Prophet ever unless there was massive slaughter in the land, in case, it becomes necessary. But like I showed, the verse, clearly says to let them go when the fury of war is over.
     
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