Did God Create the Universe, or Did the Universe Create God?

[chinu]

Did the beautiful women made that fashion, or Did the fashion made that women beautiful ?

Ask this question to any beautiful women.. in order find an answer of OP

 

[PearlSeeker]

, in the case of universal existence, the 'artwork' is an ongoing event, then the mind and spirit of the "artist" is being revealed to us by it, in time.

It's like music then.

 

[PearlSeeker]

When an artist creates a painting, or a sculpture, or a piece of music, he or she then sets it free and sends it out into the world on it's own.

What about when a tree grows a branch?
Or luminary emanates light?
Or a mind thinks?

 

[firedragon]

Assuming, for the moment, that there exists a god, on what rational basis, if any, could it be determined that the god was (or was not) a naturally occurring feature of the universe?

Please do not answer that we would know god was of supernatural origin if we could determined that god governed the universe. That would be a failure to acknowledge that god could be an emergent property of the universe, for it is conceivable that an emergent property could be 'greater' than what it emerges from.

Interesting question. Is this a theological question or a scientific question? Thats where the divide lies in.

Anyway, lets say one presumes God exists. With this presumption, the characteristic of God is that he is the creator, thus by default he has to have existed before "creation".

But in case your definition is different and you claim that God himself is a creation or an evolved part of the universe itself then it simply depends on your definition.

 

[night912]

New Assuming, for the moment, that there exists a god, on what rational basis, if any, could it be determined that the god was (or was not) a naturally occurring feature of the universe?

Please do not answer that we would know god was of supernatural origin if we could determined that god governed the universe. That would be a failure to acknowledge that god could be an emergent property of the universe, for it is conceivable that an emergent property could be 'greater' than what it emerges from.

As of now, there are no rational reason for us to suggest whether or not god could be that. We have not aquire the data to make such a connection.

 

[PureX]

It's like music then.

To follow the analogy, yes.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Assuming, for the moment, that there exists a god, on what rational basis, if any, could it be determined that the god was (or was not) a naturally occurring feature of the universe?

We can rationally talk about concepts. Universe is temporal/changing. What concept of God did you have in mind?

 

[Valjean]

We can rationally talk about concepts. Universe is temporal/changing. What concept of God did you have in mind?

That's the salient question. Is this "god" just a feature like gravity or spacetime, or is he a conscious entity? If the latter, what are his/its features?

 

[PureX]

What about when a tree grows a branch?
Or luminary emanates light?
Or a mind thinks?

I would consider that when energy generates matter, matter generates life, and life generates consciousness, these examples of transcendence are an "emergent characteristic" of the divine source we call, "The Creator". ... That mystery source, sustenance, and purpose of all that is.

 

[truthseeker7]

Assuming, for the moment, that there exists a god, on what rational basis, if any, could it be determined that the god was (or was not) a naturally occurring feature of the universe?

Please do not answer that we would know god was of supernatural origin if we could determined that god governed the universe. That would be a failure to acknowledge that god could be an emergent property of the universe, for it is conceivable that an emergent property could be 'greater' than what it emerges from.

how could you demonstrate that?