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did God create a cruel world?
- Thread starter Merlin
- Start date
he did'nt create a cruel world; he created the World. He then populated it, and unfortunately cruel behaviour is on of man's options - so the world (If you think that way became a cruel world). personally, I'd rather focus on the kind acts and deeds that go unnoticed.Merlin said:
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angellous_evangellous
Guest
One of the reasons why (orthodox) Christians believe that Jesus is fully God and fully human. He entered into nature, so that by his death and resurrection, this "cruel" world will be redeemed. Human sin affected everything in nature, which is why there are "natural" evils like bad weather, earthquakes, etc. We all suffer these evils together, just as we all suffer the continual human evils of those in our human community. No sin is without consequences, and we all suffer. But the Christian message is that through the resurrection of Christ, all humans have the hope of salvation from this grim fate, and all nature will be redeemed by God as well.
I think it is just nature. Cruel is just a label we humans tend to put on things. You don't think that lion is worried about how that buffalo is feeling when the lion is eating him alive. Would the lion say that is was cruel? Or would we as human try to humanize everything and say that it is cruel. It is just nature. Nature can sometimes be labeled as cruel.Merlin said:
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angellous_evangellous
Guest
Try to think of it in terms of provision and neglect. Fair weather provides for humanity, so we consider it "good." We can work, play, and enjoy nature. Getting eaten by cute tigers is not provision, but neglect. Earthquakes and tidal waves neglect human and animal safety. Nature is cruel in that it provides and neglects without pattern -particularly with weather and other natural events. If we simply exist "naturally" there is no hope for redemption. If there is something more to humanity - like being made in the image of God, with a special interaction and promise from God - we have hope for the future.Radar said:
I have hope for the future and I seek no redemption for anything. Like I said before I don't believe that any god created any world cruel or otherwise. No I don't believe there is anything more to humanity like being made in gods image or anyone elses image. But I do have hope for the future but I don't hope and pray, I hope and work towards making things better. Nature will always take it's course being labeled cruel or otherwise.angellous_evangellous said:
I do not believe that God created the world in a few days, He created the conditions which allowed the world to involve, maybe to His own design who knows.Radar said:
whether created or not, there is little doubt that it is God's world, and the way it is created is savage and is cruel. Maybe that is one of the humans tasks, to rise above the natural order.
As a matter of interest, how do you define 'better' without Scriptures? Maybe what you think is better is actually making things worse. Unless you have your own life plan which fits in with what you consider is the world's life plan. Then you have something to measure against.
Actually, as a percentage of the biomass on earth, mankind is a tiny part. I believe that there is more biomass of earthworms than of all humanity. So when we look at the way the world was created, the vast majority of it was created as a very unpleasant, very savage, and cruel place.michel said:he did'nt create a cruel world; he created the World. He then populated it, and unfortunately cruel behaviour is on of man's options - so the world (If you think that way became a cruel world). personally, I'd rather focus on the kind acts and deeds that go unnoticed.
Darwin himself quotes the life history of a wasp that lays its eggs under the skin of a caterpillar. When the caterpillar hibernates the eggs hatch and it eats caterpillar alive very slowly from the inside. The grub knows which parts to eat first so that it doesn't kill this host. What an appalling creature to create.
You will find that (even ignoring humans) the world was created to be a very unpleasant place indeed. Maybe that's God's natural order? If not, why did he create 99% of the world's biomass to live like this?
I use websters to define better. Why does anyone need any scriptures to define better? Better is subjectional term. What I think is better you may think is worse. But what I mean is better for me, better for my family and loved ones while giving respect to sociaty. I don't need any measuring stick I help make decisions for my family that will best suit us with in the laws of the land. No scripture required no god required. Religion is not a part of my life. I don't worship any god. I don't go to church. so again your sriptures don't apply to me so I don't need them to define better.Merlin said:
Sorry, I did not make my comment very clear. What I meant was, how can we get a universally agreed definition of 'better'. For example, it might be better for me and my family if I robbed the old lady next door and got away with it. So that is a good definition of 'better', but only better for me.Radar said:
It seems to me that one of the early reasons to have religion was to persuade (frighten?) people into accepting a better social order. The natural order of things is to take what you want if you are strong enough to take it. That is the point I was making in one of my earlier replies, that God seems to have made a world with 'might is right' as its predominant natural rule. To have what we now call a more civilised way of living, we need a set of rules that cause us to override our natural instincts.
As an atheist, you are allowed to do anything (however unpleasant to others) providing you manage to do it without being found out or getting punished. There are no sanctions against you at all (real or imaginary).
It is a very tempting religion, atheism, but I do not have a strong enough faith to be an atheist.
Malus 12:9
Temporarily Deactive.
That has been twisted to apply to all religions, unfortunatly.
Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of gods. What is it in your atheism that requires a "strong faith"?
You seemed to have confused atheism with satanism. And in my earlier reply I said with respect to society and with the laws of the land. Moral character has nothing to do with religion. Why do you think people cannot know the difference between right and wrong without some sort of faith? Religion does not make a person a better person. Religion associates a person with a certain group of people. I don't need any religion to be able to reason, rationalise things or to logically come to a decision about how to act. People were civil to one another long before religion came about. So are you saying if you had no religion or faith in any god you would be running the streets wild causing hate and discontent?Merlin said:
Why do you say that?Radar said:
I
That is denominationism. Religion is just a belief in God.
You are kidding, right? When you go back that far (at least pre early Egyptian), I think you will find that the concept of being civil to somebody else had not even cross their minds. The strongest took from the weakest, females were abused as part of life, and the weak were left to die. How do I know that? Because we had just emerged from being animals, and that is the way they act.
Because that is how a satanist would view actions not an atheist.
Seeing how you say you are of all religions I guess neither denomination or religion applies to you. I guess you could say you are religion whore (no offense), meaning that you go around to all religions and are not faithful to one. But answering you if a person says they are christain they lump themselves into a group or catagory.
So we are no longer animals. When did we emerg from being animals? So I would guess that one day we just started talking , reading, writing, and living side by side in colonies. So anytime before bible we were not civil, we never treated each other with respect it just happened overnight. So females had equal rights and weren't abused let's say 200 years ago? We don't even have to back that far. Even today the weak and females are abused in many cultures around the world. They would probably say that they were civil and doing gods work. Maybe you should clarafy what you wrote.
Seeing how you say you are of all religions I guess neither denomination or religion applies to you. I guess you could say you are religion whore (no offense), meaning that you go around to all religions and are not faithful to one. But answering you if a person says they are christain they lump themselves into a group or catagory.
So we are no longer animals. When did we emerg from being animals? So I would guess that one day we just started talking , reading, writing, and living side by side in colonies. So anytime before bible we were not civil, we never treated each other with respect it just happened overnight. So females had equal rights and weren't abused let's say 200 years ago? We don't even have to back that far. Even today the weak and females are abused in many cultures around the world. They would probably say that they were civil and doing gods work. Maybe you should clarafy what you wrote.