Did Floyd Die Because He Was Black?

[Nakosis]

Yes, you are pointing out that his behavior was causal not asserting it was the proximate cause.

That is fine and good, but in the same vein, your upbringing of your son was causal in his circumstance.

We can always wonder what if, but it is proximate cause on which we need to focus

Don't you think we should consider what we could do different in future events to prevent such deaths?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Please show where I suggested that he deserved it.

Your entire post. Don't play coy.

 

[fantome profane]

Doesn't matter what I assume. It matters what the police assumed. What I assume didn't kill him.

Your entire argument is based on these assumptions.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Nope



Sure, hope you are right, but in the meantime, we are back to my previous post.

I'm sure we are, back to your previous post.

I am trying to convey to you, however, the idea that you can accept defeat as being inevitable is unhelpful. Or you can try to find the way to make it not so. Nobody says that's easy -- history says the opposite, it's usually very hard! MLK and Gandhi were assassinated both, if I recall. But they walked into their battles knowing the dangers...

 

[Nakosis]

Your entire argument is based on these assumptions.

Which I am not alone in assuming. The video supports the assumption. Do you have a reason I should assume otherwise?

What should I assume? Tell me. Some ******** cops were just passing by looking for some Black fellow to kill?

 

[fantome profane]

Which I am not alone in assuming. The video supports the assumption. Do you have a reason I should assume otherwise?

What should I assume? Tell me. Some ******** cops were just passing by looking for some Black fellow to kill?

You shouldn’t assume!!!!

 

[Nakosis]

I'm sure we are, back to your previous post.

I am trying to convey to you, however, the idea that you can accept defeat as being inevitable is unhelpful. Or you can try to find the way to make it not so. Nobody says that's easy -- history says the opposite, it's usually very hard! MLK and Gandhi were assassinated both, if I recall. But they walked into their battles knowing the dangers...

I'm not accepting defeat. I'm saying your solution hasn't stopped folks from being killed by the police.

 

[Nakosis]

You shouldn’t assume!!!!

Sure, good luck getting through life on that one.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I'm not accepting defeat. I'm saying your solution hasn't stopped folks from being killed by the police.

You are right. You just forgot the entire gist of my thesis -- it hasn't stopped it YET. That's where I turn it over to you, and to all other Americans.

Nobody's going to do it for you. This is who you are, as Americans, and if you can't decide -- as Americans -- to change it, well then, this is who you will be.

So I am challenging you to go out and convince your fellow Americans that they really do want to change.

It's the only way...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Probably not, being drunk. You start out putting yourself at a disadvantage. Probably didn't even realize his life was at risk until too late.
If you are going to commit a crime, even a minor crime, don't do it while drunk.

Still not an excuse. Being drunk isn't a crime. The police are police, not executioners. Sayimg "well, he shouldn't have been drunk and the shouldnt have done this and that," doesn't matter. Floyd was not armed, he was down, he was cuffed. Piggly Wiggly shouldn't have knelt on his neck, his accomplices should have stood up for whats right. But they didn't. They are accessories and accomplices. Floyd should still be alive. Period.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

convince your fellow Americans that they really do want to change.

Sorry, but thats funny. This is a nation that says they hate Dems and Reps, yet, election after election, they vote for Dems and Reps. This is America. I have my iPhone. Someone can go do the changing.

 

[Revoltingest]

Might even be encouraged. Police dept looking for ****** cops to enforce the law. A necessary evil perhaps.

I find it hard to believe.
But I do notice that they're not well screened.

 

[Nakosis]

I find it hard to believe.
But I do notice that they're not well screened.

Yes, well, IDK. Someone just told me I oughtn't to be assuming.

 

[Revoltingest]

Screening for those with bullying tendencies isn't actually all that difficult. The Toronto Police Services do that when they are screening recruits -- it's done through a technique that I know very well, called "Behavioural Focused Interviewing" or BFI.

Good to know.
Perhaps they do here in some places.
I've just known examples who weren't screened.

 

[Nakosis]

Still not an excuse. Being drunk isn't a crime. The police are police, not executioners. Sayimg "well, he shouldn't have been drunk and the shouldnt have done this and that," doesn't matter. Floyd was not armed, he was down, he was cuffed. Piggly Wiggly shouldn't have knelt on his neck, his accomplices should have stood up for whats right. But they didn't. They are accessories and accomplices. Floyd should still be alive. Period.

Not making an excuse. Making a suggestion of what someone might want to think about to prevent their own demise at the hands of some ******** cop.

 

[Nakosis]

You are right. You just forgot the entire gist of my thesis -- it hasn't stopped it YET. That's where I turn it over to you, and to all other Americans.

Nobody's going to do it for you. This is who you are, as Americans, and if you can't decide -- as Americans -- to change it, well then, this is who you will be.

So I am challenging you to go out and convince your fellow Americans that they really do want to change.

It's the only way...

Sure, what changes should we make? Have you heard anyone with the authority to make changes, suggesting these changes? I'll be happy to support them.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Not making an excuse. Making a suggestion of what someone might want to think about to prevent their own demise at the hands of some ******** cop.

We shouldn't accept that. Cops are puic servants. As rude as it would we should be able to say nealry and almost anything and everything we want to cop free from fear of consequences.

 

[Revoltingest]

We shouldn't accept that. Cops are puic servants. As rude as it would we should be able to say nealry and almost anything and everything we want to cop free from fear of consequences.

Are you saying that it's either useless, should be unnecessary,
or is wrong to use techniques to avoid violence by cops?

 

[SomeRandom]

Or did he die because of bad choices he made?

There were, IMO, at least 3 bad choices made by George Floyd that day, any one of which if he had made better choices, he'd be alive today.

First bad choice - he chose to be intoxicated. Which impaired his thinking.

Second - He chose to pass fake bills, also chose to not return the cigarette when confronted by the store employees.

Third - He chose to resist the police when they tried to place him in the vehicle.


He was Black. Something he really had no choice over. Nothing he could have done different about that.
Dick-head cop was a racist. Ok, but Floyd had no choice over which cops were going to show up.
Floyd said he was claustrophobic, perhaps but I doubt the police would accept that as an excuse to not arrest him. If he had complied and gotten in the cruiser when ask, he would have been long gone before dick-head cop showed up on the scene.

Not saying the cop is not accountable but we have no control over what other people do. What we do have control over is our own action, our own choices. We have to make wise choices and cannot depend on others to make the wise choices for our own safety.

He could have chosen to carry a gun that day (which I believe is his right in America) and shot at police trying to arrest him, only to get shot and not make international headlines. Maybe national headlines though, I dunno.
The police could have chosen to apply reasonable force as is their sworn duty as officers of law and order. They could have used a taser on him and thrown him in a van.
Don’t get me wrong, cops are in constant danger, arguably more so in America than in the rest of the Western world. So I do not envy them. But they are supposed to be held to higher standards for they hold more responsibility and power in society.

If the allegations are true, then Mr Floyd is guilty of making poor life decisions. Sure.
The police meanwhile are guilty of exerting too much force and failing to protect the citizens they are sworn to protect. Not to mention murder. In a free world we are supposed to be able to hold people in power accountable. Is it wise to annoy a police officer? No. But humans are flawed and do stupid things everyday.

 

[Revoltingest]

Don’t get me wrong, cops are in constant danger, arguably more so in America than in the rest of the Western world. So I do not envy them.

Their job isn't even in the top 10 most dangerous jobs.
Fishing, logging, farming, & groundskeeping are worse.