1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Did existence always exist?

Discussion in 'Seekers Circle' started by osgart, Dec 31, 2018.

  1. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

    Joined:
    May 1, 2017
    Messages:
    2,222
    Ratings:
    +850
    Religion:
    Spiritual Naturalist
    Was there something else existing before matter and energy?

    If there is no actual flow of time , how do you explain motion and aging?

    Is existence contingent upon there being matter and energy?

    What existed in the places before space emerged and inflated?

    What causes energy and matter to exist?


    And finally, did existence always exist? Or was there a genuine literal beginning to everything that is?

    Can anyone imagine that the past has no beginning? And the future no ending?

    It all makes me think that something perpetual does exist, and the universe is not a fleeting event.

    Perhaps the death of all things existence is greatly exaggerated!



    Happy New Year!
     
  2. Axe Elf

    Axe Elf Prophet

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    2,405
    Ratings:
    +1,618
    Religion:
    zen Xian
    Forty-two.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  3. beenherebeforeagain

    beenherebeforeagain Rogue Animist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    15,719
    Ratings:
    +4,737
    Religion:
    Modern Animist
    1) I have no idea
    2) I don't know...I just go with the flow...
    3) I have no idea
    4) I have no idea
    5) I have no idea
    6) & 7) I don't know and I don't know
    8) & 9) I have no idea about anyone else, but I know I can't; and I have no idea about anyone else, but I know I can't

    I'm not saying that no one can answer these questions, and I'm really glad that some people are devoting a lot of energy to trying to understand existence...I just know that I don't know, and doubt my own ability (and frankly, that of everyone else) to REALLY know for sure about these questions...and for me, the questions are interesting to consider, but the answers don't really affect my seeking...

    well, maybe a little...
     
  4. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    9,789
    Ratings:
    +4,180
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    Quantum zero point energy and Quantum gravity

    Contemporary science based on the work of cosmologists and physicists from the Theory of Relativity to Quantum Mechanics over the past 100 years the most likely conclusion is that our physical existence is based on an eternal and/or infinite Quantum World. Our universe,and all possible universes and multiverse form in the Quantum World.

    In reality the ultimate answer is beyond human reach.
     
    #4 shunyadragon, Dec 31, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  5. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,605
    Ratings:
    +959
    Religion:
    Baha'i inspired liberal
    I don’t know but I imagine existence is perpetual
    Happy New Year
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    21,103
    Ratings:
    +7,662
    Religion:
    Zen Buddhism
    I suspect there really is no beginning or end with potential and the phenomena of existence.
     
  7. Jollybear

    Jollybear Hey

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    3,961
    Ratings:
    +507
    Religion:
    Christian/mystic
    God is eternal, infinite, concious, intelligent energy. This energy is before space, time and matter.

    God created time. Without God creating time, WHEN would the universe come to exist? Without God creating space, WHERE would the universe exist? Without God creating matter, HOW would it come to exist?

    Yes for everything but God. God is formless and is not matter.

    God.

    God causes it. God is within himself energy, as defined above.

    A beginning for everything except God.

    No, because if you have a infinate regresion of causes going back in perpetual time, then it will take an infinite amount of time for all events to take place. Thus, nothing, logically would take place.

    God does.

    Whatcha mean?
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. MonkeyFire

    MonkeyFire Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2014
    Messages:
    947
    Ratings:
    +121
    Religion:
    Faithful Jesus believer
    Yes and we don't have to repeat our pains forever... As long as we have always been without suffering with exception to this one time
     
  9. Who me

    Who me New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2019
    Messages:
    7
    Ratings:
    +0
    Religion:
    Christian, evangelical
    The science behind the big bang theory indicates that the universe once had a begining.

    So it follows there was a period when there was no universe, no space, no energy, no matter and no time.

    The question then is what caused the big bang?

    What exists out side of time and space, is not material and could cause everything to come into existence?

    The answer to me is only something that is 'supernatural' or to use different words, a God.
     
  10. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Strange Loop

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2017
    Messages:
    938
    Ratings:
    +509
    Religion:
    none
    This is self-contradictory. If time began at the big bang, then there was never a time ("period") when the universe didn't exist.

    This is just anthropomorphising an unknown and it doesn't really help. A god that creates a universe is no less mysterious and unexplained than just a universe.
     
  11. Who me

    Who me New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2019
    Messages:
    7
    Ratings:
    +0
    Religion:
    Christian, evangelical
    The idea of absolute nothing is a difficult concept. It is as difficult a concept as the idea of infinity.

    We are very aware of time and the idea of things having a start/end are familiar to us, as is the idea of things happening before a time and after a time.

    I can't argue you into accepting a start of time I can only point out that it is an idea we have to concider.

    In the same way if the universe has a start, a big bang, something caused that big bang and one of the more reasonable explanations is that something outside of our universe caused it.
    I think it reasonable to call it God. You don't, but you still have to concider what is a supernatural, immaterial being.
     
  12. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Strange Loop

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2017
    Messages:
    938
    Ratings:
    +509
    Religion:
    none
    I'm not denying the possibility, it's just that if time did start at the big bang, then there was no such time as before the big bang, which is why your statement was contradictory.

    If it was actually the start of time, then there could be nothing that happened before that caused it (because there was no before). There may be a cause in some sense, or a reason why the 4-dimensional space-time exists but it couldn't be a cause in the usual sense because you need time for that.

    Why? It seems like a totally baseless guess as far as I can see. And, as I said, it doesn't help with any sort of fundamental explanation because instead of the questions "why does the universe exist?" and "why not a different universe or nothing at all?", you have "why does this 'god' exist?" and "why not a different 'god' or nothing at all?"
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,459
    Ratings:
    +153
    Religion:
    biblical believer
    What is the smallest unit of time? One second, one hundredth of a second, one millionth of a second, one trillionth of Second?

    It is not midnight at one second to midnight nor is it midnight at one trillionth of a second to midnight, so when does it become midnight?
     
  14. GoldenThread

    GoldenThread Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2018
    Messages:
    127
    Ratings:
    +17
    Religion:
    Christian
    It amazes me the hoops that modern day science goes to find an explanation that doesn't include God.

    Science at it's root actually compliments God and His existence. Sadly, their are many biases out their in the science world that they aren't able to see the truth that is right under their noses.

    Look up, "The Axis Of Evil" if you want 100% scientific proof that science knows that a God exists, they just choose to not acknowledge that.
    NOTE: I am not calling on the integrity of an individual scientist, only the community as a whole as expressed by what they all agree to be true or not true.

    In peace
     
  15. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Strange Loop

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2017
    Messages:
    938
    Ratings:
    +509
    Religion:
    none
    What exactly do you mean? In what way could/should science include a god?

    How?

    Tried that, didn't find any evidence, let alone proof. But then, there is actually no such thing as "scientific proof", science doesn't do proof.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    9,789
    Ratings:
    +4,180
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    The smallest unit of time and measurement is the Quanta based on Quantum Mechanics.
     
  17. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    9,789
    Ratings:
    +4,180
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    Science is simply a factual view of the nature of our physical existence based on objective verifiable physical evidence, and the limitations of Methodological Naturalism concerning possible worlds beyond our physical world. It is independent of atheism and the many variable beliefs in God or Gods, because the inconsistent and variable religous beliefs cannot make computers worknor airplanes fly. .

    Science by its nature cannot prove anything of the many variable beliefs in worlds of God or Gods, because of the limits of objective verifiable evidence.

    Your source (which one?) is in coherent as far as science is concerned
     
  18. GoldenThread

    GoldenThread Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2018
    Messages:
    127
    Ratings:
    +17
    Religion:
    Christian
    I am a bit hesitant (yet open) to believe that after researching the axis of evil you didn't find any proof. What did you find out through your research about the axis of evil?
     
  19. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Strange Loop

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2017
    Messages:
    938
    Ratings:
    +509
    Religion:
    none
    Well, I'm assuming you meant the anomaly in the CMB, what I don't get is why on earth you'd think that was "100% scientific proof that science knows that a God exists" or, for that matter, why you'd think it was even a tiny shred of a hint of any evidence that some god exists.
     
  20. SonOfElElyon

    SonOfElElyon Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2019
    Messages:
    124
    Ratings:
    +18
    Religion:
    Antediluvian
    These replies are entertaining! LOL! Everyone knows all about God, though don't know who, what where when or what he is. Hah!
     
Loading...