Did Darwin really say this?

[Spiderman]

"Since the dawn of history the Negro has owned the continent of Africa – rich beyond the dream of poet’s fancy, crunching acres of diamonds beneath his bare black feet and yet he never picked one up from the dust until a white man showed to him its glittering light.
His land swarmed with powerful and docile animals, yet he never dreamed a harness, cart, or sled.
A hunter by necessity, he never made an axe, spear, or arrowhead worth preserving beyond the moment of its use. He lived as an ox, content to graze for an hour.
In a land of stone and timber he never sawed a foot of lumber, carved a block, or built a house save of broken sticks and mud.
With league on league of ocean strand and miles of inland seas, for four thousand years he watched their surface ripple under the wind, heard the thunder of the surf on his beach, the howl of the storm over his head, gazed on the dim blue horizon calling him to worlds that lie beyond, and yet he never dreamed a sail.” - Charles Darwin
http://fixedgear808.blogspot.com/2012/03/racist-quote-attributed-to-charles.html?m=1

Did he really say that? I'm just surprised that he is still hailed as a hero, saying something that you would think came from Hitler. I'm almost positive he made the first comment in "the descent of man"...but pretty sure the second one is not from him.

Do you know of any other racist comments by Darwin? Can it be verified that the quote actually comes from him?

 

[Rival]

It's difficult to find Victorians who weren't racist.

 

[columbus]

Do you know of any other racist comments by Darwin? Can it be verified that the quote actually comes from him?

Of course Darwin was a racist. Virtually everyone in 19th century Christendom was, especially the aristocracy.
Tom

 

[Spiderman]

On 17 December 1832, Charles Darwin arrived in Tierra del Fuego1 at the southernmost tip of South America, as part of his world tour aboard H.M.S. Beagle. Here he got his first view of the native inhabitants,2 whom he described as ‘miserable degraded savages,’ a term he used many times in his journal concerning these people.

He wrote, ‘I could not have believed how wide was the difference between savage and civilized man: it is greater than between a wild and domesticated animal, inasmuch as in man there is a greater power of improvement.’3

He described one group of Fuegians as ‘the most abject and miserable creatures I anywhere beheld’ and as existing ‘in a lower state of improvement than in any part of the world.’ … ‘These poor wretches were stunted in their growth, their hideous faces bedaubed with white paint, their skins filthy and greasy, their hair entangled, their voices discordant, and their gestures violent.

Viewing such men, one can hardly make oneself believe that they are fellow creatures and inhabitants of the same world. It is a common subject of conjecture what pleasure in life some of the lower animals can enjoy; how much more reasonably the same question may be asked with respect to these barbarians. At night, five or six human beings, naked and scarcely protected from the wind and rain of this tempestuous climate, sleep on the wet ground coiled up like animals.’3

Concerning their painted faces he wrote, ‘… with their naked bodies bedaubed with black, white, and red, they looked like so many demoniacs who had been fighting,’ and ‘The party altogether closely resembled the devils which come on the stage in plays like Der Freischütz.’3

Concerning their language Darwin wrote, ‘The language of these people, according to our notions, scarcely deserves to be called articulate. Captain [James] Cook has compared it to a man clearing his throat,4 but certainly no European ever cleared his throat with so many hoarse, guttural, and clicking sounds.’3
http://creation.mobi/charles-darwins-savages

 

[sayak83]

View attachment 20136
"Since the dawn of history the Negro has owned the continent of Africa – rich beyond the dream of poet’s fancy, crunching acres of diamonds beneath his bare black feet and yet he never picked one up from the dust until a white man showed to him its glittering light.
His land swarmed with powerful and docile animals, yet he never dreamed a harness, cart, or sled.
A hunter by necessity, he never made an axe, spear, or arrowhead worth preserving beyond the moment of its use. He lived as an ox, content to graze for an hour.
In a land of stone and timber he never sawed a foot of lumber, carved a block, or built a house save of broken sticks and mud.
With league on league of ocean strand and miles of inland seas, for four thousand years he watched their surface ripple under the wind, heard the thunder of the surf on his beach, the howl of the storm over his head, gazed on the dim blue horizon calling him to worlds that lie beyond, and yet he never dreamed a sail.” - Charles Darwin
http://fixedgear808.blogspot.com/2012/03/racist-quote-attributed-to-charles.html?m=1

Did he really say that? I'm just surprised that he is still hailed as a hero, saying something that you would think came from Hitler. I'm almost positive he made the first comment in "the descent of man"...but I'm not sure about the second one.

Do you know of any other racist comments by Darwin? Can it be verified that the quote actually comes from him?

And Newton enjoyed hanging people left and right.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rosspomeroy/2013/11/04/why-was-isaac-newton-such-a-jerk/#5d453aaf6e20

 

[Sunstone]

Ah, to be young again, PopeADope! Young enough to expect moral perfection of people, and to be taken by surprise when folks prove to be a mix of good and evil.

 

[sayak83]

View attachment 20136
"Since the dawn of history the Negro has owned the continent of Africa – rich beyond the dream of poet’s fancy, crunching acres of diamonds beneath his bare black feet and yet he never picked one up from the dust until a white man showed to him its glittering light.
His land swarmed with powerful and docile animals, yet he never dreamed a harness, cart, or sled.
A hunter by necessity, he never made an axe, spear, or arrowhead worth preserving beyond the moment of its use. He lived as an ox, content to graze for an hour.
In a land of stone and timber he never sawed a foot of lumber, carved a block, or built a house save of broken sticks and mud.
With league on league of ocean strand and miles of inland seas, for four thousand years he watched their surface ripple under the wind, heard the thunder of the surf on his beach, the howl of the storm over his head, gazed on the dim blue horizon calling him to worlds that lie beyond, and yet he never dreamed a sail.” - Charles Darwin
http://fixedgear808.blogspot.com/2012/03/racist-quote-attributed-to-charles.html?m=1

Did he really say that? I'm just surprised that he is still hailed as a hero, saying something that you would think came from Hitler. I'm almost positive he made the first comment in "the descent of man"...but I'm not sure about the second one.

Do you know of any other racist comments by Darwin? Can it be verified that the quote actually comes from him?

Also read the entire evidence first
https://www.amazon.com/Darwins-Sacr.../ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/01/books/chapters/chapter-darwins-sacred-cause.html

 

[Spiderman]

Ah, to be young again, PopeADope! Young enough to expect moral perfection of people, and to be taken by surprise when folks prove to be a mix of good and evil.

I'm not discrediting his theory...I wish I was as smart and educated as Darwin.. I'm in the same category in most respects as the people he refers to as "savages and imbeciles".... Just wondering if those quotes actually come from him.

 

[Altfish]

He didn't say black or white or Jewish or Chinese; he said civilised and non-civilised.
What he said surely means that he expects 'modern' man to replace 'ancient' man; now I'm not saying that is good or bad but I believe he was talking about advancement.
However, in the early/mid 19th Century it was the 'norm' to talk of tribesmen as savages. By today's standards it is probably racist; but 175-years ago, it was not considered so.
He was equally offended by the fact that they were naked and impolite.

 

[Spiderman]

I'm a "Savage" by the way... my kind would die off without the sympathy and charity of others. One thing I am is honest because I believe God rewards honesty... mankind's compassion and inventions keeps people like me alive. What is it in human instincts that leads to compassion to help those who would naturally die off?

 

[columbus]

I'm just surprised that he is still hailed as a hero, saying something that you would think came from Hitler.

Darwin is not famous for his work in sociology or ethics. He was a biologist.
He is justifiably hailed for his cutting edge work in that field. It isn't that he accurately described the process of speciation. His understanding was really kind of primitive. But he narrowed the focus onto the most accurate theory, as opposed to the many others of the day.

It's also how he did it. He didn't just assert things and support them by referring to ancient literature. He formed a hypothesis, systematically collected a small mountain of data, used that to support his theory, then published his work. That isn't how things had generally been before.

Tom

 

[Spiderman]

He didn't say black or white or Jewish or Chinese; he said civilised and non-civilised.
What he said surely means that he expects 'modern' man to replace 'ancient' man; now I'm not saying that is good or bad but I believe he was talking about advancement.
However, in the early/mid 19th Century it was the 'norm' to talk of tribesmen as savages. By today's standards it is probably racist; but 175-years ago, it was not considered so.
He was equally offended by the fact that they were naked and impolite.

Yes, he was referring to advancement

 

[LuisDantas]

@PopeADope , have you read about the cultural shock that happened in the 19th century?

At that moment in history "white" civilization began to realize how varied the anthropological horizon was, after many centuries of casual assumption that caucasians were demonstrated superior.

It took a most unusual (and more than likely ostracized) person to actually say that non-Caucasians had comparable worth to Caucasians.

It is enligthening to see the evidence of that in the literature of the time, including the so-called religious literature.

Both H.P. Blavatsky and Hyppolite Rivail took pains to redescribe the world in such a way to both explain the newly accepted diversity and reafirm the inate superiority of the "white race".

If I had to guess, odds are that they had a bad need to do so in a sufficiently solemn way to placate the insecurities of their worldviews.


As for Darwin, he is well remembered for his pioneering work in biology. That his anthropological sensitivity was unremarkable for his time in no way compromises that merit.

 

[Sunstone]

I'm a "Savage" by the way... my kind would die off without the sympathy and charity of others. One thing I am is honest because I believe God rewards honesty... mankind's compassion and inventions keeps people like me alive. What is it in human instincts that leads to compassion to help those who would naturally die off?

Humans tend to be tribal animals that cheerfully look out for members of their own group and just as cheerfully murder members of other groups.

 

[Altfish]

Do you know of any other racist comments by Darwin? Can it be verified that the quote actually comes from him?

Why don't we start 2 lists; in the first list we will have all the comments made by Darwin that could be racists and in the second we'll have a list of all the comments by Trump that could be racists.

I wonder which would be longest?

 

[Stanyon]

Since we are talking about Darwin we might as well include a few videos of our ancestors, we don't seem that far removed.

 

[Revoltingest]

Since we are talking about Darwin we might as well include a few videos of our ancestors, we don't seem that far removed.

Uncle Angus!


Anyway, the cry, "Racist!", whether accurate or not, is the modern
equivalent of the old "Commie!" back in the red scare era.
Wanna demonize someone irredeemably? This is the tool.
Darwin was a smart & insightful guy. So if he'd survived long enuf
to be among us, I'm sure he'd be as progressive as the best of us.

 

[columbus]

What he said surely means that he expects 'modern' man to replace 'ancient' man; now I'm not saying that is good or bad but I believe he was talking about advancement.

I see no reason to interpret it that way. I think he was just plain ethically primitive, having gotten his worldview from the Christian culture he grew up in.
He didn't have the last century and a half of scientific and moral progress to influence his worldview. We do now, partly because he helped pave the way towards using evidence and reason to sort the True from the False. As opposed to the old way of relying on human authority, such as the classical Greeks and Abrahamic prophets. He helped create the modern world, but he wasn't raised in it.
Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

I see no reason to interpret it that way. I think he was just plain ethically primitive, having gotten his worldview from the Christian culture he grew up in.
He didn't have the last century and a half of scientific and moral progress to influence his worldview. We do now, partly because he helped pave the way towards using evidence and reason to sort the True from the False. As opposed to the old way of relying on human authority, such as the classical Greeks and Abrahamic prophets. He helped create the modern world, but he wasn't raised in it.
Tom

We stand on the shoulders of giants....imperfect giants.

 

[columbus]

Since we are talking about Darwin we might as well include a few videos of our ancestors, we don't seem that far removed.

The fact that our instincts, the behaviors we are born with and don't have to learn, are so similar is compelling evidence (ie. Proof) that we are descended from the same ancestors as the other large primates.
Tom