Did Christianity Start with Jesus?

[Skywalker]

Jesus said the father is greater than he is.

That's like me saying that the president is greater than I am.

 

[YoursTrue]

After more thought, I know jesus is god.

The Word of God doesn't mean the Word is God. Just like the son of the father doesn't mean the son is the father. It means the son OF the father. Jesus is very, very powerful now in heaven.

 

[YoursTrue]

That's like me saying that the president is greater than I am.

Yes. It doesn't mean you are the president or...equal to the president. For instance, there are certain things the president can do that others simply cannot do.

 

[Skywalker]

Yes. It doesn't mean you are the president or...equal to the president. For instance, there are certain things the president can do that others simply cannot do.

Jesus meant his will was in alignment with the Father when he prayed not my will but thine be done.

 

[YoursTrue]

Jehovah offered a covenant to the people He exodused from Egypt, and they accepted. They became Jehovah's nation. The law covenant was a tutor leading to the Messiah Gal 3:23,24. On the last day of Jesus' life, with Jehovah's blessing Jesus offered a new covenant to his disciples, and prior to his ascension to heaven, he gave them an assignment.

The new covenant went into force on Pentecost of the year 33CE with the pouring out of the holy spirit to those gathered Acts Chap 2. With so many of Jesus' disciples being added, people started calling them Christians. It was first at Antioch that those disciples were called Christians Acts 11:26

Hope that helps.

interesting, because the promise was given to Abraham, and the descendents of Jacob formed the nation. And Jehovah was their God.

 

[YoursTrue]

Jesus meant his will was in alignment with the Father when he prayed not my will but thine be done.

So that truly says Jesus is not equal to his God and Father. Although he has been given great, great power. BY the Father. But remember he will eventually turn over everything to the Father.
Hope you're doing ok. Jesus taught his disciples to pray for God's kingdom to come.

 

[YoursTrue]

Jesus meant his will was in alignment with the Father when he prayed not my will but thine be done.

To continue this thought, Satan the devil turned against Jehovah. Jesus did not.

 

[YoursTrue]

Jesus meant his will was in alignment with the Father when he prayed not my will but thine be done.

Jesus was in subjection to his Father in heaven. He put himself in subjection. Unlike Adam and Eve who did not and lost their lives.

 

[Skywalker]

Jesus was in subjection to his Father in heaven. He put himself in subjection. Unlike Adam and Eve who did not and lost their lives.

Do you think Jesus was limited by time and space?

 

[Tumah]

Believe I have read somewhere, that in order to be called a Rabbi in ancient Israel (might still be true) one would need to be married, or at least it would be highly unlikely not to be. Can anyone confirm that?

I went a few pages in and couldn't find any response to your post.
The way to be called a Rabbi was to be given smichah. This is basically ordination from someone already ordained. Basically after proving your expertise in Jewish Law. It invests the student with the authority to deliberate on cases of Jewish Law. That doesn't mean that they can't teach or transmit Jewish Law, just that they can't give an authoritative response to a petitioner.

Here's an example:

And the Gemara explains the reason for the different names: This baraita, where he is called by his father’s name, was written before he was ordained, and this baraita, where he is called Rabbi Yehoshua, was from after he was ordained.​

The custom was to call a person by their first name or their father's name (son of X) until he received this ordination from a Rabbi after which he would be called Rabbi X. To well-known examples of this are [Simon] ben Azai and [Simon] ben Zoma who died before their ordination.

There were examples where someone who had ordination wasn't called Rabbi, such as Hillel and Shamai. But someone who didn't have ordination couldn't be called Rabbi because that was the implication of the title.

Obviously, if you're not a Pharisee and you're writing a book in which you want people to relate to one of the characters as a person of authority, you can write whatever you want. But in the Pharisaic world, in order to be called Rabbi, you need to receive ordination.

 

[Tumah]

There is nothing in the Written Torah (the 613 mitzvot) that explicitly requires any sort of mercy or charity in general. It does say that in the Mishnah, said to be the written record of the Oral Torah, for example in Tractate Yevamot.

Deut. 15:8

One might suspect that the Oral Torah as practiced or claimed by some Pharisees was really more about super strict than rules than anything else. Hint: Beit Shammai, the predominant school of Pharisees in the putative timeframe. Two things should be made clear. Shammai himself was a stickler for the Law to be sure, but his followers after his death were simply fanatical. Rabbinic Judaism was founded mostly on Beit Hillel, still fully observant but understanding the purpose behind the Law.

It's rare to come across someone who doesn't know what they're talking about, but still speaks so authoritatively.
Neither Shammai nor his school were the predominant school of the Pharisees at any point in history. Shammai acted as Hillel's vice-president when the two sat as the leaders of the Sanhedrin. Shammai's school, although having sharper students than Hillel's always had less students than Hillel, which is why they almost never had a majority opinion and by extension, why their opinions almost never made it into Law. Nor was Shammai's position based on a stricter interpretation of the Law as opposed to Hillel.
Lastly, Rabbinic Judaism began well before Hillel and Shammai and is not founded on either of them.

 

[capumetu]

interesting, because the promise was given to Abraham, and the descendents of Jacob formed the nation. And Jehovah was their God.

Yes sir you are very well correct, those exodused from Egypt made up those descendants of Abraham. They also had a vast mixed company go out with them, they became a nation when all accepted the words of Jehovah:
(Exodus 24:7, 8) . . .they said: “All that Jehovah has spoken we are willing to do, and we will be obedient.” 8 So Moses took the blood and sprinkled it on the people and said: “This is the blood of the covenant that Jehovah has made with you in harmony with all these words. . .

They became His covenanted people at that time, the Law covenant. Good knowledge sir, can you trace His people to today?

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes sir you are very well correct, those exodused from Egypt made up those descendants of Abraham. They also had a vast mixed company go out with them, they became a nation when all accepted the words of Jehovah:
(Exodus 24:7, 8) . . .they said: “All that Jehovah has spoken we are willing to do, and we will be obedient.” 8 So Moses took the blood and sprinkled it on the people and said: “This is the blood of the covenant that Jehovah has made with you in harmony with all these words. . .

They became His covenanted people at that time, the Law covenant. Good knowledge sir, can you trace His people to today?

Not sure I understand your question. (By the way, I'm female.)

 

[Alea iacta est]

This is definitely a very interesting discussion.

When I read the NT I can clearly see the difference between what Jesus taught and what Paul taught. Jesus was more into reforming Judaism to be more "humane" instead of being so dogmatic. Paul on the other hand did a lot of changes in a way it's clearly he was founding a new religion.

There have been a discussion in the thread about Jesus being an Essene or not. I know there are some scholars who wrote books about Jesus being an Essene. I haven't read these books myself so I don't know the arguments for or against it. But I do know that Jesus criticized all major groups except the Essenes. That's probably one major argument Jesus would have been an Essene. But they were living in their own communtities which is an argument against it. Its possible they decided to step up and trying to grow more by proselyting among other Jews, or that Jesus decided to do that alone.

It's hard to know for sure. It's also hard to write something more about this that haven't been mentioned already in this thread.

 

[capumetu]

Not sure I understand your question. (By the way, I'm female.)

Not sure I understand your question. (By the way, I'm female.)

I apologize very sincerely maam, thank you for telling me.

You recognized in your post that God made a covenant with Abraham, back further than I went with the law covenant. You were absolutely correct, obviously Noah was one of Gods people, and His people all descended from his family, Abraham was the next one God dealt with as His friend, and those who were exodused from Egypt, Abrahams descendants for the most part accepted the law covenant and became His nation.

The Bible goes on to show that they entered into the promised land, and have their ups and downs. They were easily identified as being God's people. My question was, how do you identify God's people today?

Again I apologize for calling you sir, I have made a note, and usually click on the handle to see if I can identify sex prior to posting, I hope I will not make that mistake again.

 

[YoursTrue]

You merely crave certainty where there is none.

The more I think about it, I have come to the conclusion that the Bible IS the word of God. Put together by God. Inspired by God. 2 Timothy 3:16.
Inspiration — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY (jw.org)

 

[YoursTrue]

I apologize very sincerely maam, thank you for telling me.

You recognized in your post that God made a covenant with Abraham, back further than I went with the law covenant. You were absolutely correct, obviously Noah was one of Gods people, and His people all descended from his family, Abraham was the next one God dealt with as His friend, and those who were exodused from Egypt, Abrahams descendants for the most part accepted the law covenant and became His nation.

The Bible goes on to show that they entered into the promised land, and have their ups and downs. They were easily identified as being God's people. My question was, how do you identify God's people today?

Again I apologize for calling you sir, I have made a note, and usually click on the handle to see if I can identify sex prior to posting, I hope I will not make that mistake again.

No problem, I just didn't want you to continue with that idea which is why I said something. About me not being 'sir.' Thank you.
I have come to the decision after much consideration, that God's people are those that also recognize the one true God that Jesus spoke of and prayed to. It is not enough to have knowledge. Many people have knowledge. Knowledge is good, but it is knowledge coupled with action and faith that counts. For instance, it seems clear to me that the earth is going to be a paradise some day under Jesus Christ as king. Another way I identify God's people is their love for their fellowman rather than putting nationalism above that. There is more, but how do you feel about those things?

 

[YoursTrue]

If I said that the president of the United States is greater than me I'm not saying that he's more of a man than I am.

That is correct. But he has more power.

 

[YoursTrue]

This is definitely a very interesting discussion.

When I read the NT I can clearly see the difference between what Jesus taught and what Paul taught. Jesus was more into reforming Judaism to be more "humane" instead of being so dogmatic. Paul on the other hand did a lot of changes in a way it's clearly he was founding a new religion.

There have been a discussion in the thread about Jesus being an Essene or not. I know there are some scholars who wrote books about Jesus being an Essene. I haven't read these books myself so I don't know the arguments for or against it. But I do know that Jesus criticized all major groups except the Essenes. That's probably one major argument Jesus would have been an Essene. But they were living in their own communtities which is an argument against it. Its possible they decided to step up and trying to grow more by proselyting among other Jews, or that Jesus decided to do that alone.

It's hard to know for sure. It's also hard to write something more about this that haven't been mentioned already in this thread.

Jesus was the sacrificial lamb. Like a lamb brought to the slaughter. Many people don't like to be criticized and Jesus condemned hypocrisy. Among other things that he did that brought censure upon himself.

 

[Skywalker]

That is correct. But he has more power.

That's what it means that Jesus is the Son of God.