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Featured Did Christ really exist ?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Neuropteron, Nov 26, 2020.

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  1. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    I dont think the Illuminati conspiracy theories are important to focus on. We should just focus on the Word of God, not on evil.

    Scholars do believe in the Pauline letters. Pauline epistles - Wikipedia

    Also, who wrote the book of Hebrews is a minor theological issue. It has nothing to do with the existence of Christ.
     
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  2. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    He sure did know scripture. He also knew the scriptures leading to the Christ.
     
  3. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

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    Uh, the Colorado river is still inside the Grand Canyon. We see water erode rocks all over the Earth.
    We have found organic molecules on asteroids from space. Life may be in many places across the universe.
    What Genesis 1 says is just stuff a bronze age civilization made up. There is zero evidence their God or any other God is real.


    Life came about by self replicating molecules. Our studies on the origins of life reveal many new discoveries every year.
    This year a paper came out showing we found self-replicating molecules that also had a type of metabolism.

    "In a chance discovery, researchers have for the first time observed the emergence of something akin to metabolism in molecules that also self-replicate.1 The replicator molecules catalyse a reaction that produces compounds that help to make the replicator’s own building blocks. It might be one of the most lifelike chemical systems ever created, combining two of life’s three essential features – replication, metabolism and compartmentalisation."
    Self-replicating molecules show signs of metabolism for the first time


    It is only a matter of time before we understand the process of organic molecules beginning to self replicate and eventually ending up at a basic RNA.
    If you are choosing to believe a myth, taken from older myths, written in a style that all other myths (that are not true) are written in, that feature improbable events and point to a really terrible version of a God then have at it.
     
  4. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    Look, people believe many things, as you say. And some call themselves Christian and saved even if they practice homosexuality. So we all have to decide. I for one, am glad that Paul had that vision. Yes, I believe God sent it to him. It wasn't easy for him after he received that vision. Nevertheless, Christ existed and was killed. Paul was obviously not a believer in Jesus as the Messiah when the disciples saw him resurrected before he went to heaven.
     
  5. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    OK, whatever...:) about life elsewhere. Yes, there are angels, demons, and God. They don't live on planets. They don't need food. Etc. They don't reproduce. Etc. and etc.
     
  6. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    What about the writing styles and theology in Paul's letters are wrong? I agree with you about corruption in the church. The pastors and the priests are human beings who make mistakes like everyone else. Regarding what you said about church additions, the Bible never mentions Paul being involved in the corrupted behavior of church leaders.

    I think the apostles practiced similar Christianity similar to Messianic Jews, but Paul believed in the Old Testament concept of the Messiah as a suffering servant who died for the sins of the world, not in the concept of the Messiah as a political figure that existed among the Jews of Jesus's time who rejected Jesus, and rabbinic Judaism. What difference does it make if Paul followed Jewish law in terms of his teachings being true? He taught the message of Jesus, so from a Christian standpoint, whether someone follows the Old Covenant alongside the New Covenant doesn't make a difference. I believe Paul's vision of Jesus was credible because he had no signs of mental illness and he had nothing to gain from following Jesus. He was persecuted and jailed and he never talked about anything that glorified his past-he only glorified Jesus.
     
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  7. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Paul didn't gain anything by changing his actions. He was jailed and persecuted. He never talked about his past life in a way that glorified it, he said that he used to be a mess, and he only glorified God.
     
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  8. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    Self-replicating. So? There are self-replicating molecules. Gotta have those molecules started somehow. Yeah, ending up at a basic RNA. (sarcasm, sorry)
     
  9. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    Thanks for that.
     
  10. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    Please note I didn't say God made the Grand Canyon. :) Obviously and evidently the WATER did. Nice, isn't it, that we have such wonderful things to look at, and consider?
     
  11. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Paul changed his beliefs too. He went from persecuting Christians because of his beliefs about Jewish law, to speaking out against the practices of the Judaizers. Paul was neutral on the issue of practicing Christianity like the Messianic Jews do. He didnt require Christians to follow Jewish practices nor was he against the practices of the Jewish Christians. Paul the Apostle and Jewish Christianity - Wikipedia
     
  12. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Even when bacteria molecules develop on their own, like on meat, they dont become anything but bacteria.
     
  13. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

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    What is actually said about Canaanite child sacrifice:

    "It is considered virtually impossible to reconstruct a clear picture of Canaanite religious practices. Although child sacrifice was known to surrounding peoples, there is no reference to it in ancient Phoenician or Classical texts. The biblical representation of Canaanite religion is always negative.[26]

    Canaanite religious practice had a high regard for the duty of children to care for their parents, with sons being held responsible for burying them, and arranging for the maintenance of their tombs.[27]"

    Again, you source a biblical archaeology site that says "The answer to this charge is obvious to Bible students."?? But the Bible isn't a historical book? It's a book of laws, wisdom and made-up supernatural entities? How hard is it to actually look into a field for real???
    Read a paper?:

    Canaanite Religion this is on Canaanite religion.

    Then there is Yahweh who tells his people to defeat a city and take women and children for themselves a "plunder of war".
    And in 6 other cities to kill all living things because they are all evil? Yahweh was no different than any other God back then, killing anyone not Hebrew.


    But science has ruled it out.
    Comparative mythology shows common myths do not point to historical events at all.
    If it happened then the older accounts - Sumerian - would be the most accurate. Multiple Gods, names of Gods and people all different, different religion.
    You have a computer, a car, technology, airplanes, medical tech, science has proven to be the most effective way to understand the world. A flood never happened.
     
  14. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

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    You used the source. I had to point out how absurd your source was using this example. Your source lied to you. The coin did not say Yahweh. It said "house". This is not the word of god but clear lies. So if as you say we should focus on the word of God, you must have banished that site from your contact list?
    You have not demonstrated there is any God words at all? Just stories made by people.



    Yes like it says, there are 7 authentic letters.


    Like I pointed out, Christ is a dying/rising savior God myth, the Jewish version.
     
  15. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

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    Yes this myth was going around at the time.
     
  16. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Just because the Epic of Gilgamesh was written older than Noah's ark, that doesn't mean that its true. Correlation isn't causation. Geology hasn't ruled out a world flood. The Grand Canyon supports that there was a world flood. Flood Geology and the Grand Canyon: What Does the Evidence Really Say? - Articles
     
  17. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

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    People believe all sorts of fiction. When one takes an honest look at evidence it's clear that it's just not true. I do not have to decide. I believe what evidence shows. Emotional attachments will cause people to use all sorts of confirmation bias. You keep making statements but cannot back them up.
     
  18. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    There's no evidence confirmation bias or emotional attachments played any role in the conversion of Paul.
     
  19. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

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    There are angels, demons and God in fiction. There are also Hobbits and Sauron and many Gods and demigods.
    Evidence shows they are all stories.
     
  20. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Just because someone is a pastor that doesn't mean I believe everything they say. The Bible says to search the Scriptures. Acts 17:11 Now the Bereans were more noble-minded than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if these teachings were true.

    None of the pagan gods died to pay the price of the sins of the world so that they could be forgiven. Christ has nothing to do with pagan mythology.
     
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