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Did Christ appear to other nations?

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
joeboonda said:
The website above is a Presbyterian Church in Ireland, for crying out loud

Then they should tell us about the Prebyterian Church in Ireland, I would find that far more interesting that regurgitated anti-Mormon rhetoric.
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
Maize said:

Then they should tell us about the Prebyterian Church in Ireland, I would find that far more interesting that regurgitated anti-Mormon rhetoric.
There's that word again, anti-mormon. I hate that word. Now if you see something in my religion that seems in error, and you want to help me, is it mean or bad for your to try to point out the perceived error? For example, Muslims say Christ did not die on the cross, would it be wrong for me to debate that and use any material at my disposal to try to prove my point? I don't think so, but i get condemned for it on Religious Forums. Now I AM learning the rules, but I think I am unfairly treated much of the time. But, I think I understand your point, I guess, instead of pointing out what I believe to be errors in your doctrine, I will simply tell you what I believe instead.

Thanks,

Mike
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
joeboonda said:
There's that word again, anti-mormon. I hate that word. Now if you see something in my religion that seems in error, and you want to help me, is it mean or bad for your to try to point out the perceived error?

I may not agree with your beliefs, but I have no desire to tell you what to believe or not.

For example, Muslims say Christ did not die on the cross, would it be wrong for me to debate that and use any material at my disposal to try to prove my point? I don't think so, but i get condemned for it on Religious Forums.
Well, in that case you would be defending your beliefs, which would be fine. The point is we want respectful debates and discussions and when members of a religion repeatedly tell you that copying and pasting websites that distort and lie about their faith is offensive to them, why do you not listen? If you have a question, ask it respectfully. If you disagree with another's belief, OK debate it without being offensive.
Now I AM learning the rules, but I think I am unfairly treated much of the time. But, I think I understand your point, I guess, instead of pointing out what I believe to be errors in your doctrine, I will simply tell you what I believe instead.

I am not LDS and I am not saying that you shouldn't debate points that you disagree with, but when LDS members keep telling you the same thing over and over again, try to listen even if you do not agree. But I do think it would be nice if everyone spent a little more energy explaining and talking about their own beliefs instead spending so much time trying to tear down others. But that's just my personal opinion.
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I here ya, I've told them I will not cut and paste long articles, and that I will show my sources. That is why I only posted the link on my last post. Thing is, If you have a friend that is in what you believe to be false religion, lets say the Branch Dividians, thinking David Koresh is the Messiah, and worshipping his false idea of God, would it not be your duty to try to help them out of that false religion? Or Jim Jones, or some other religion you believe to be false? Is it wrong to debate? Or to present articles that clearly show the error of your opponent? Everyone says, oh those are all lies, but they contain the quotes of the leaders of the movements themselves. Anyway, I am chillin now, I will just express my own ideas as best as I know how, let the chips fall where they may.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
joeboonda said:
Yeah, I here ya, I've told them I will not cut and paste long articles, and that I will show my sources. That is why I only posted the link on my last post. Thing is, If you have a friend that is in what you believe to be false religion, lets say the Branch Dividians, thinking David Koresh is the Messiah, and worshipping his false idea of God, would it not be your duty to try to help them out of that false religion? Or Jim Jones, or some other religion you believe to be false? Is it wrong to debate? Or to present articles that clearly show the error of your opponent? Everyone says, oh those are all lies, but they contain the quotes of the leaders of the movements themselves. Anyway, I am chillin now, I will just express my own ideas as best as I know how, let the chips fall where they may.
It's not wrong to want to show them what you think is the light, but taking them down, insulting their faith, telling them that is is blasphemy is not going to get them to convert. I don't think many people havebeen converted by someone telling them that their faith is wrong and they are going to hell.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
I think a way you could show them is with love, patience, service, kindness, long-suffering.

You be nice and share with them what you believe in, give them a chance to hear what you have to say, listen to what they have to say. Don't tear down their faith, and if they don't accept what you have to say, well then, deal with it.

It's their choice. Remember, Christ will never force Himself(and I don't think other deities will either) upon anyone. It is their personal choice.

I believe we all have our free agency and God gave us that, He knew some of us wouldn't choose Him, but He gave us the agency.

Sorry to get on my soapbox.
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
I understand, I don't try to tear them down, even if that is what it seems. Pointing out error in doctrine is in no way saying they are bad people. But listen, I said I will try to be nice and have nice conversations, I don't know what more to tell you.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
joeboonda said:
I understand, I don't try to tear them down, even if that is what it seems. Pointing out error in doctrine is in no way saying they are bad people. But listen, I said I will try to be nice and have nice conversations, I don't know what more to tell you.
No, you are tearing down the faith when you say 'pointin out error in doctrine'. That's not your place to decide. That's what your problem is. How do you know that yours is the one true faith, why can't others be the one true faith, is that not fair?

That's your problem, quite pointing out what you consider 'errors in doctrine', because that is not your place to decide, you are not of that faith.
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
beckysoup61 said:
No, you are tearing down the faith when you say 'pointin out error in doctrine'. That's not your place to decide. That's what your problem is. How do you know that yours is the one true faith, why can't others be the one true faith, is that not fair?

That's your problem, quite pointing out what you consider 'errors in doctrine', because that is not your place to decide, you are not of that faith.
Well, I am not of that faith, I am of the Christian faith, you say you are of the Christian faith, I don't see why we cannot discuss differences in our doctrines. Of course I do not say I am a Mormon, but you say you are a Christian, so we should be able to debate and discuss doctrine. Just like I would debate a pentecostal or a catholic, or who are Christian too, on points of doctrine. I love em, they love me, but we are just debating, thats all.

For example, if I say I believe once saved always saved, and you didn't, you would debate me, no problem, I would not be mad or say you are attacking my faith, just that we disagree. We would debate, discuss, and present our arguments, and evidences.
If you say God was once a man who attained Godhood, and I say he has always been God, and never changes and is everywhere and is spirit, etc, then we can debate it, no problem, we just disagree, and discuss and present our arguements, and evidences.

I would not be mad if you copied something someone had researched on the matter, that I may debate it, I would not consider you as anti-christian, or as attacking me personaly or my religion. What I wonder, is why people get so defensive, is it insecurity or doubt lingering somewhere in the back of their minds? I know you will say that it is just me cuz I am sooooooooo bad, and evil for debating doctrine. Ok, I said I will chill and I will.
Love you and pray you have a wonderful 2006.

Sincerely,

Michael
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
Speaking of us both being Christians, If I accept you as a Christian, will you accept me as a Mormon? If I say I'm a Mormon but I don't believe Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God. I'm a Mormon but I dont believe the Book of Mormon is the word of God. I'm a Mormon but I don't believe in baptism for the dead or in the Mormon priesthood, and other things. What if I start a religion that is totally didferent than the LDS church, to the extent that i denied the identity of who the LDS god was, would you think me to be a Mormon? Obviously a person who claims to be a Mormon and doesn't accept the very doctrine that makes Mormons what they are, can't be one. IN THE SAME WAY, it must be conceded that a Mormon who claims to be a Christian cannot deny those doctrines that make Christians what they are. The two religions are just not compatible. We believe very different things about God, and Jesus, and Salvation, Heaven, Hell, and a number of other doctrines of the Bible. I do not know that we worship the same God, our ideas of him are quite different. I know this is crazy rambling from a crazy man, but just my thot for the moment, that i think I heard somewhere before, maybe from Bible-Truths I think, yeah thats it, ok, well that leads me to a question, if God was a man, who attained God hood, then were there not Gods before him that created him and the planet he lived on? And if so, would God be lying when he said :

45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me:
(King James Bible, Isaiah)

The Bible says, "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me." (Isaiah 43:10) "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." (Isaiah 44:6) In simple terms God says there are no other gods.



Just wondering, just curious as to your beliefs on that, no one has answered me yet.
 

DeepShadow

White Crow
Um Hello? This was cited from 600bc to 421ad, not the 1800s!
You copied my entire post; what part is this an answer to?

And Indians didnt have horeses til much later when the Spanish brought them.
Where did I disagree?! Show me in my post, since you read it, where I said otherwise.

Speaking of which, if Indians were lost tribes of Israel, which DNA proves they were not, would they not be forbidden as were the Jews in the Bible to ride horses?? The Jews were not to have horses.
Yet more evidence that the Nephites didn't have horses, but only used the old ideograph to refer to them. Frubals for the info!!

And the truth is that Joseph Smith loved making up fanciful stories long before he wrote the BOM.
He loved telling stories. Which, once again, begs the question why he didn't put that considerable storyteller's acumen to work!
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
" if God was a man, who attained God hood, then were there not Gods before him that created him and the planet he lived on?"

Asking it this way makes it a question not a persecution.

Regards,
Scott
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
DeepShadow said:
You copied my entire post; what part is this an answer to?


Where did I disagree?! Show me in my post, since you read it, where I said otherwise.


Yet more evidence that the Nephites didn't have horses, but only used the old ideograph to refer to them. Frubals for the info!!


He loved telling stories. Which, once again, begs the question why he didn't put that considerable storyteller's acumen to work!
...would it really have been necessary for him to describe a horse to a group of 1820's farmers? :biglaugh:

I suppose it was that line that made me think you were talking of the 1820's and not 600 B.C.

You made a good argument, so frubals to ya. I wonder, my Bible has maps of the cities mentioned in it, Where is the maps of the Book of Mormon, I know there are some, but where are the cities, and the archeological findings from the great battle(s)? that took place? I find the archeological evidence for the Bible to be overwhelming, but for the BOM it seems to me to be rather scarce, of course, I am just learning, so...anyway, I enjoyed your post, still trying to understands all this.

Sincerely,

Michael
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/ldsviewcontradictsbible.htm

Hi, this is an article, I will not paste, about God, the difference between what I believe and Mormon belief. jonny put me on his ignore list, but maybe someone can show me what errors are in this article. If your God is different than my God, then we must worship different Gods, perhaps unknowingly. I honestly and sincerely, and lovingly post and ask for your thoughts, I do no know how to ask any better than this.

Mike
 

Yasin

Member
Popeyesays said:
I believe that Jesus came to this earth ONCE. Christ (the Annointed, the Chosen, the Messiah, the Spirit of God), however, has come many times to as many peoples as needed to hear Him. I do not think, however, that He came to all those peoples in the three day period between His death on the cross and His resurrection.

Moses was "the Christ" to the people to whom He came. Muhammed was the "Christ" to the people to whom He came, etc. Zoroaster, Buddha, the Bab, Baha`u'llah, Noah, Abraham, Krsna, all came as the Divine Manifestation of God, but the man, Jesus was here just once.

Regards,
Scott
How can you say that the Prophets came in manifestations of God, Jesus (pbuh) i can understand why you could make such a claim, but Muhammed (pbuh) Moses (pbuh), Noah (pbuh) and Abraham (pbuh).............What did they say?
This is a first for me:sarcastic

Respectively, Yasin:bounce
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
joeboonda said:
http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/ldsviewcontradictsbible.htm

Hi, this is an article, I will not paste, about God, the difference between what I believe and Mormon belief. jonny put me on his ignore list, but maybe someone can show me what errors are in this article. If your God is different than my God, then we must worship different Gods, perhaps unknowingly. I honestly and sincerely, and lovingly post and ask for your thoughts, I do no know how to ask any better than this.

Mike
Jonny can put you on ignore; I can't. And here I was thinking that we mods had all the privileges.

Your article doesn't state what Mormons believe. It states what some non-Mormon with an ax to grind thinks Mormons believe. You have continued to ignore our repeated attempts to tell you what we really believe, and you continue to try to get us to defend beliefs we don't even hold. I've lost track of the number of times we have stated our beliefs, only to see you turn around and repeat the same old lies -- over and over again. For the millionth time, we worship the same God as you do; we understand Him in a different way than you do. I'd like very much to be able to see you as honest, sincere and loving. Unfortunately, actions speak louder than words.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
Katzpur said:
Jonny can put you on ignore; I can't. And here I was thinking that we mods had all the privileges.

Your article doesn't state what Mormons believe. It states what some non-Mormon with an ax to grind thinks Mormons believe. You have continued to ignore our repeated attempts to tell you what we really believe, and you continue to try to get us to defend beliefs we don't even hold. I've lost track of the number of times we have stated our beliefs, only to see you turn around and repeat the same old lies -- over and over again. For the millionth time, we worship the same God as you do; we understand Him in a different way than you do. I'd like very much to be able to see you as honest, sincere and loving. Unfortunately, actions speak louder than words.
Exactly. Have we once attacked you and told you that you were wrong? No. Not a single time, yet, again and again you attack us, tell us we aren't Christian, and that we don't worship the same God as you.

How can you make that disdinction, when we say we worship the same God as you, we do. Why argue over theology that you don't know much about except from ex-mormons with a beef and problems and anti-mormons? How about taking the person from the faith and taking their answer for once.
 

DeepShadow

White Crow
joeboonda said:
You made a good argument, so frubals to ya.
Thanks! Yours should have come first,

I wonder, my Bible has maps of the cities mentioned in it, Where is the maps of the Book of Mormon, I know there are some, but where are the cities, and the archeological findings from the great battle(s)?
I'm assembling some of these evidences for BoM archaeology on the "Faking History" thread, but for now it's mostly a list of Egyptian names in the Book of Mormon. If it's maps you want, check out the book, "An Ancient American Setting for the Book of Mormon" by John L. Sorensen. He found cities exactly where the book said they would be.
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
Thank you for your replies, I am saddened by our inability to come together over these things. I KNOW you believe you believe in the same God as I. Without offense, please, let me copy the latter part of my link above, and see if you can tell me where I am wrong, please, the source is sited above, and it is not to lengthy, so please do not be angry for my copy of it, I would truly like your feedback. I do not wish to attack or anger anyone, but, to show what my Bible says that is different from what I perceive to be your theology. In Love, here goes:

What the Bible Says About God

1. ALWAYS GOD - in the past as well as in the future.

"Art thou not from ever-lasting, O Lord my God, mine Holy One?" Hab. 1:12

"For I am the Lord, I change not." Mal. 3:6

"...from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God." Psa. 90:2

"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent." Num. 23:19

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,...who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever." Rom. 1:22-25

The LDS god started as a finite man and progressed to godhood.

2. ALWAYS HOLY - Both in the past and future.

"...a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he." Deut. 32:4

"I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee." Hos. 11:9

"The Lord is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works." Psa. 145:17

"God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." 1 John 1:5

"Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness." Psa. 119:142

The LDS god achieved holiness.

3. ALL KNOWING - Both in the past and in the future.

"Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him? With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding? ... There is no searching of his understanding." Isa. 40:13,14,28

"Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite." Psa. 147:5

The LDS god had to learn everything.

4. ALL POWERFUL

"The Lord God omnipotent reigneth." Rev. 19:6

"...his eternal power and Godhead." Rom. 1:20

The LDS god attained his power.

5. OMNIPRESENT

"The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool; where is the house that ye build unto me: and where is the place of my rest?" Isa. 66:1

"Am I a God at hand, saith the Lord, and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord." Jer. 23:23-24

The LDS god can be in only one place at a time.

6. ACTED ALONE IN CREATION

"I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone, that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself." Isa. 44:24

"By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth." Psa. 33:6

"Thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all." Neh. 9:6

The LDS god cooperated with the Council of Gods to create.

7. NO OTHER GODS

"I am he; before me there was no God formed neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour." Isa. 43:10-11

"I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God....is there a God beside me; yea, there is no God; I know not any." Isa. 44:6&8

"To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?...for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me." Isa. 46:5&9

"I am the Lord; that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another." Isa. 42:8

The LDS God has a father and mother, grandparents, brothers and sisters, etc.

Please, in my best way I know how, this is what I believe, can you show me if I am wrong here? Thank you so much for listening to me, I know I am not on good terms with you, and am trying to change that. Stick with the doctrine as stated above and teach me where I am wrong on this. I go back to work tomorrow, and it wears me out completey, but I will check back in on this.

Sincerely,

Michael
 

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
This post has been hijacked to Christian versus LDS.

I thought every one in the RF believe God is God, and each is entitled to his way of worshipping God and believing?

Spread some love around, agree to disagree and move on to discuss whether God has appeared to other nations or not, giving your evidence to show your agreement or disagreement, and leave out arguement about difference in this Christian sect and that Christian sect. Okay?
 
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