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Dialogue Between Latter-day Saints and Baptists
- Thread starter jonny
- Start date
Thank you Dawny.dawny0826 said:
I do have one follow-up question for this. Does you church teach that you have to be a member of any certain denomination to be saved or is being saved independent from membership in a church? For example, could someone who has never attended any religious meeting of any denomination become saved?
dawny0826 said:
What you descibed about being saved is similar to what LDS believe in regards to baptism (the water baptism). We believe that when we are baptized that we are washed clean and, in effect, born again. We also believe that baptism is an outward sign of our commitment to Jesus Christ.
In the LDS church, after baptism we recieve the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. We consider this the baptism of the spirit.
Does your church believe that there are any covenants associated with baptism? In the LDS church, we believe that through baptism we covenant that we are willing to take upon us the name of Jesus Christ, keep his commandments, and always remember him.
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
jonny said:
This is from our website...
We lay hands on each other when we pray...we lay hands on each other for healing...we lay hands on each other when one goes up to the front of the church for prayer...or when they accept Christ.
It's a biblical gesture as well as an intimate gesture.
And it's very spiritual...when you're in the Spirit...and everyone is praying and praising and then you pray over someone and touch them...you can FEEL the Holy Spirit at work.
I had hands laid on me when I accepted Christ...and I literally FELT the Holy Spirit move through me. It was incredible.
It may sound a bit odd to someone who doesn't do this...but it doesn't look strange...truly.
kevmicsmi
Well-Known Member
jonny said:
Dawny's views seem similar to mine, so Ill answer from my experience in a Baptist church. The only thing you need to be saved is faith Christ died, ressurected for your sins, and you accept Him in your life, to attone for your sins. in my experience it doesnt matter what church if any you go to.
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
jonny said:
Nope...not at all. Denomination is a non-issue in my church.
My Pastor has said many times that it's not about the church that you attend...it's about feeding your spirit...getting into the Word of God. Taking the Pulpit to the Pews..
One can totally become saved outside of the church. You can open your bible and accept Christ and receive the Holy Spirit WITHOUT anyone touching you or preaching to you.
It's all about establishing a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. We don't even advertise that we're Pentecostal....it's ALL about Christ. It's not about the church. There's no formalities within the church. It's about the Body of Christ...which includes all Christians.
We focus on growing spiritually and fully embracing what we have In CHRIST...so that we can get out there in the world and carry out the great commission...especially during the last days...when people REALLY need to hear the News.
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
jonny said:
Well, in our Church...you wouldn't be water baptized unless you receive Christ and the Holy Spirit.
Water baptism comes later...because it's simply a symbol.
When you accept Christ...you are baptized in essence by his blood...when you accept that he sacrificed himself for your sins...that's the Spiritual baptism right there...
Water baptism is viewed as being incredibly important. Water baptism has been encouraged in every church that I've ever attended...however it doesn't save you. Christ saves you. And you're saved when you accept Christ. When you accept Christ...you receive the Holy Spirit (Spiritual Baptism)...if you don't have the Holy Spirit...you're not saved...so...you wouldn't be baptised in water if you didn't have the Holy Spirit within you.
Does that make any sense?
FFH
Veteran Member
LUKE
Chapter 9
49- And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50- And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
President Hinckley, and his counselors, and many of the Quorum of the Twelve are going to be meeting this month with some local Evangelical Christians to see if they can build a better working relationship with the many diversified Evangelical denominations in our community. I will try to find a link to what will be brought up at this meeting.
Like Dawny has stated we are Christians first and foremost, then we are (fill in your denomination here).
We are all on the same team, but many of us don't understand, or realize, that yet.
Chapter 9
49- And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50- And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
President Hinckley, and his counselors, and many of the Quorum of the Twelve are going to be meeting this month with some local Evangelical Christians to see if they can build a better working relationship with the many diversified Evangelical denominations in our community. I will try to find a link to what will be brought up at this meeting.
Like Dawny has stated we are Christians first and foremost, then we are (fill in your denomination here).
We are all on the same team, but many of us don't understand, or realize, that yet.
FFH
Veteran Member
Mark
Chapter 9
38- And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
39- But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracles in my name that can lightly speak evil of me.
40- For he that is not against us is on our part.
41- For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
Chapter 9
38- And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
39- But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracles in my name that can lightly speak evil of me.
40- For he that is not against us is on our part.
41- For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
FFH
Veteran Member
I would like to quote from a book by Betty J. Eadie. She is a member of the LDS faith, and has had a near death experience.
After she died and crossed over the veil, she was given an answer to her question, "Why are there so many religions?" The answer was given to her as knowledge flowed into her mind, while she was absent from her physical body.
Her body lay dead for an unknown period of time, after a hysterectomy, which left her bleeding internally, and unknowingly, and unattended, for a period of time, in which time she died, while in her hospital bed recovering. The time period in which she was dead is unknown, because she was unattended at the time of her death. She was later revived and given blood. It is a miracle that she is alive today.
Here is the pure knowledge that was spoken to her mind while she was on the other side of the veil, and absent from her body. If you don't believe in this sort of thing, then I guess you won't believe what she has to say either.
I read this over ten years ago and it has never left my mind. It was just what I needed to hear, at the time. Here are her words from her book "Embraced by the Light". From the chapter entitled "Embraced by the Light", Page 45, 46.
Betty J. Eadie
"I wanted to know why there were so many churches in the world. The answer came to me with the purest of understanding. Each of us, I was told, is at a different level of spiritual developement and understanding. Each person is therefore prepared for a different level of spiritual knowledge. All religions upon the earth are necessary because there are people who need what they teach. People in one religion may not have a complete understanding of the Lord's gospel, and never will have, while in that religion. But that religion is used as a stepping stone for further knowledge. Each church fulfills spiritual needs that perhaps others cannot fill. No one church can fulfill everybodies needs at every level. As an individual raises his level of understanding about God and his own eternal progress, he might feel discontented with the teachings of his present church and seek a different philosophy or religion to fill that void. When this occurs he has reached another level of understanding and will long for further truth and knowledge, and for another opportunity to grow. And at every step of the way those new opportuntities to learn will be given."
"Having received this knowledge, I knew that we have no right to criticize any church or religion in any way. They are all precious and important in his sight. Very special people with important missions have been placed in all countries, in all religions, in every stations of life, that they might touch others. There is a fullness of the gospel, but most people will not attain it here. In order to grasp this truth, we need to listen to the Spirit and let go of our egos."
www.EmbracedbytheLight.com
After she died and crossed over the veil, she was given an answer to her question, "Why are there so many religions?" The answer was given to her as knowledge flowed into her mind, while she was absent from her physical body.
Her body lay dead for an unknown period of time, after a hysterectomy, which left her bleeding internally, and unknowingly, and unattended, for a period of time, in which time she died, while in her hospital bed recovering. The time period in which she was dead is unknown, because she was unattended at the time of her death. She was later revived and given blood. It is a miracle that she is alive today.
Here is the pure knowledge that was spoken to her mind while she was on the other side of the veil, and absent from her body. If you don't believe in this sort of thing, then I guess you won't believe what she has to say either.
I read this over ten years ago and it has never left my mind. It was just what I needed to hear, at the time. Here are her words from her book "Embraced by the Light". From the chapter entitled "Embraced by the Light", Page 45, 46.
Betty J. Eadie
"I wanted to know why there were so many churches in the world. The answer came to me with the purest of understanding. Each of us, I was told, is at a different level of spiritual developement and understanding. Each person is therefore prepared for a different level of spiritual knowledge. All religions upon the earth are necessary because there are people who need what they teach. People in one religion may not have a complete understanding of the Lord's gospel, and never will have, while in that religion. But that religion is used as a stepping stone for further knowledge. Each church fulfills spiritual needs that perhaps others cannot fill. No one church can fulfill everybodies needs at every level. As an individual raises his level of understanding about God and his own eternal progress, he might feel discontented with the teachings of his present church and seek a different philosophy or religion to fill that void. When this occurs he has reached another level of understanding and will long for further truth and knowledge, and for another opportunity to grow. And at every step of the way those new opportuntities to learn will be given."
"Having received this knowledge, I knew that we have no right to criticize any church or religion in any way. They are all precious and important in his sight. Very special people with important missions have been placed in all countries, in all religions, in every stations of life, that they might touch others. There is a fullness of the gospel, but most people will not attain it here. In order to grasp this truth, we need to listen to the Spirit and let go of our egos."
www.EmbracedbytheLight.com
Buttercup
Veteran Member
Jonny,
I forgot our pastor is off on Mondays. Makes sense...he works pretty hard on Sundays. We consider ourselves an independent Baptist denomination. If fact, I never say I'm Baptist. It doesn't occur to me. I almost always simply say, I'm Christian. And of course I also have to say that I don't necessarily agree 100% with everything our church teaches. But, I can live with that.
Well, here goes....told you it was going to be boring!
For starters, here is our Baptist church's statement of faith. Perhaps we can go from there.
What We Believe
About God:
We believe there is only one true God who is the Living and Almighty Creator and Ruler of the universe and all that it contains. He has eternally existed in three distinct persons (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit). These three are co-equal and are one God. We believe God created everything for His Glory and that all of creation is subject to His glory and that all of creation is subject to His sovereign will.
(Mt. 28:19; Gen. 1:1; Heb. 1:1-13; Acts 5:3-4; Jn. 10:30)
About the Holy Spirit:
We believe the Holy Spirit is co-equal with the Father and the Son of God. He is active today convicting men of sin, drawing unbelievers to God, and indwelling the believer for the purpose of enabling him to live a life pleasing to the Lord.
(Jn. 14:16-17; 16:7-12; Eph. 1:13-14)
About Human Beings:
We believe people are a special creation of God and are uniquely different from all of God's creation, for people alone are created in the "image of God." We believe people were created for the purpose of fellowship with God, but because of sin, this fellowship was broken. As a result, all of us are sinners by nature and sinners by choice, and apart from the saving work of Christ and the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, we will be eternally mastered by sin and it's consequences.
(Gen. 1:26-27; Rm. 3:10,23; 5:12; Eph 2:1-3)
About Salvation:
We believe salvation is a work of God and is a free gift of His grace. It cannot be earned through self improvement or good works. It is only by trusting in Jesus Christ as God's offer of forgiveness that anyone can be saved from the penalty of sin. When we turn from our self-ruled life and turn to Jesus in faith, accepting what He did on the cross for us, we are saved. We believe that all who receive Christ become children of God and are eternally secure in Him.
(Jn. 1:11-13; I Cor. 12:13; Col. 1:18)
About the Church:
We believe a local "New Testament Church" consists of a company of believers baptized into Jesus Christ who, by the leading of the Holy Spirit, have voluntarily associated themselves for worship, for instruction, and for service of our Lord as local manifestations of the body of Christ.
(I Cor. 12:13; Acts 2:47; Rm. 12:5; Col. 1:18)
Hopefully we can work off of that for any questions you have about a Baptist church. I am quite busy today designing so will have to wait till later tonight to get back on for reponses. Thanks for your imput.
I forgot our pastor is off on Mondays. Makes sense...he works pretty hard on Sundays. We consider ourselves an independent Baptist denomination. If fact, I never say I'm Baptist. It doesn't occur to me. I almost always simply say, I'm Christian. And of course I also have to say that I don't necessarily agree 100% with everything our church teaches. But, I can live with that.
Well, here goes....told you it was going to be boring!
For starters, here is our Baptist church's statement of faith. Perhaps we can go from there.
What We Believe
About God:
We believe there is only one true God who is the Living and Almighty Creator and Ruler of the universe and all that it contains. He has eternally existed in three distinct persons (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit). These three are co-equal and are one God. We believe God created everything for His Glory and that all of creation is subject to His glory and that all of creation is subject to His sovereign will.
(Mt. 28:19; Gen. 1:1; Heb. 1:1-13; Acts 5:3-4; Jn. 10:30)
About the Holy Spirit:
We believe the Holy Spirit is co-equal with the Father and the Son of God. He is active today convicting men of sin, drawing unbelievers to God, and indwelling the believer for the purpose of enabling him to live a life pleasing to the Lord.
(Jn. 14:16-17; 16:7-12; Eph. 1:13-14)
About Human Beings:
We believe people are a special creation of God and are uniquely different from all of God's creation, for people alone are created in the "image of God." We believe people were created for the purpose of fellowship with God, but because of sin, this fellowship was broken. As a result, all of us are sinners by nature and sinners by choice, and apart from the saving work of Christ and the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, we will be eternally mastered by sin and it's consequences.
(Gen. 1:26-27; Rm. 3:10,23; 5:12; Eph 2:1-3)
About Salvation:
We believe salvation is a work of God and is a free gift of His grace. It cannot be earned through self improvement or good works. It is only by trusting in Jesus Christ as God's offer of forgiveness that anyone can be saved from the penalty of sin. When we turn from our self-ruled life and turn to Jesus in faith, accepting what He did on the cross for us, we are saved. We believe that all who receive Christ become children of God and are eternally secure in Him.
(Jn. 1:11-13; I Cor. 12:13; Col. 1:18)
About the Church:
We believe a local "New Testament Church" consists of a company of believers baptized into Jesus Christ who, by the leading of the Holy Spirit, have voluntarily associated themselves for worship, for instruction, and for service of our Lord as local manifestations of the body of Christ.
(I Cor. 12:13; Acts 2:47; Rm. 12:5; Col. 1:18)
Hopefully we can work off of that for any questions you have about a Baptist church. I am quite busy today designing so will have to wait till later tonight to get back on for reponses. Thanks for your imput.
Ãanisty
Well-Known Member
I have to say I find this all rather interesting because in Savannah, GA and even moreso in surrounding areas, it absolutely matters what denomination a person belongs to. In fact, it matters what physical church a person goes to. We don't just have Baptists either. We have Southern Baptists, Independent Baptists, Primitive Baptists, etc. I couldn't tell you specifically the differences because I don't exactly have an open dialogue with any Baptists. Obviously the differences are important enough for them though. I knew a girl in high school who got thrown out of her house for wearing earrings because "Independent Baptists don't do that kind of floozy stuff." I would say that's a pretty harsh way to treat someone in your own family for specifically not following the tenents of one off-shoot of the Baptist faith. It happened a lot though. Anyway, my point is that here in Savannah, people identify themselves first as the denomination they belong to and second as a Christian...the opposite of what Dawny and Buttercup describe. Obviously, it's rather region-specific. This could explain why LDS members feel hostility from Baptists and Baptists are perplexed by it.
kevmicsmi
Well-Known Member
Ðanisty said:
Good points, My baptist upbringing lead me to extremely conservative Baptist churches like you describe with the poor girl, and more liberal and inclusive Baptist churches. It is funny because Baptists put so much weight in the Bible, but some congregations make up their own rules for God knows what reason. We were always taught though, "if the Bible is unclear about something,(earrings) and you feel it is a sin, then it is a sin for YOU. If I dont feel its a sin for you, its not. Unless you try to tempt those who believe its a sin to join you. I hope that makes sense. Most of us with a Baptist edumacation kant rite that wel
Ãanisty
Well-Known Member
I have no doubt that mileage will vary.kevmicsmi said:Good points, My baptist upbringing lead me to extremely conservative Baptist churches like you describe with the poor girl, and more liberal and inclusive Baptist churches. It is funny because Baptists put so much weight in the Bible, but some congregations make up their own rules for God knows what reason. We were always taught though, "if the Bible is unclear about something,(earrings) and you feel it is a sin, then it is a sin for YOU. If I dont feel its a sin for you, its not. Unless you try to tempt those who believe its a sin to join you. I hope that makes sense. Most of us with a Baptist edumacation kant rite that wel
I love your sense of humor about Baptists, btw. I think it's good you can laugh about it. Obviously not all Baptists are uneducated...it's a stereotype and as with all stereotypes, it should be taken with a grain of salt at the very least. What though do you think about my last sentence:
Buttercup
Veteran Member
Ðanisty said:I have no doubt that mileage will vary.
Well Danisty....it just surprises me mostly about the stereotyping. But, sure, I can understand if they get grief from Baptists. Our church is so laid back that it's hard to imagine it being another way at other Baptist churches. Of course I hear about the radicals every once in a while but I attribute that to media hype. I have lived on the west coast my whole life and have been to churches all through California and Oregon and it's pretty much the same. Not sure what to say about that.....it's just been my experience.
Ãanisty
Well-Known Member
I certainly don't doubt your experience. My experience is that, at least in some places, there's more to it than media hype. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to find more laid back churches on the west coast. I think a lot of things are more laid back over there, which is why I can't wait to move.
Buttercup
Veteran Member
Oregon is one of the least, if not the least, churched states in the nation. Meaning fewer people go to church here than practically any other state. You might like that....and we're quite liberal all around. I love this place and even with all the flaming liberals....we very seldom butt heads with them. We tend to agree mostly anyway.
And to keep plugging Oregon,.....it's a gorgeous state with a mild climate and only around 3 million people. Maybe a bit more than that now. And as I've said before in another thread, this is where all the retired hippies moved to. And another generation is growing up.
You might like that....and we're quite liberal all around. I love this place and even with all the flaming liberals....we very seldom butt heads with them. We tend to agree mostly anyway. And to keep plugging Oregon,.....it's a gorgeous state with a mild climate and only around 3 million people. Maybe a bit more than that now. And as I've said before in another thread, this is where all the retired hippies moved to. And another generation is growing up.
However off-topic this may be, you don't have to plug Oregon to me, Buttercup. When it comes to natural beauty, there is absolutely nothing in the world to compare to the Oregon coast, in my opinion. My favorite color -- with no close seconds -- is green. When I'm in Oregon, I am surrounded by green. Love it!Buttercup said:
Buttercup said:Oregon is one of the least, if not the least, churched states in the nation. Meaning fewer people go to church here than practically any other state.
And to keep plugging Oregon,.....it's a gorgeous state with a mild climate and only around 3 million people. Maybe a bit more than that now. And as I've said before in another thread, this is where all the retired hippies moved to. And another generation is growing up.
That's really one thing I miss about Washington/Oregon. Most of the time people could care less about what religion you are. Vancouver is the perfect place though (I am slightly biased). Work in Washington, don't pay state tax. Shop in Oregon, don't pay sales tax. The schools in Vancouver are better funded than the schools in Oregon also.