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Featured Determining the Validity of a Prophecy

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Tiberius, May 5, 2021.

  1. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, this is just wordplay. Your word play is not an actual sword. A sword is a handheld weapon with a long sharp blade. It has also not actually turned anything into dust.
     
  2. WonderingWorrier

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    Exactly. The wordplay in the bible prophets sentences is very specific.

    Brass - Silver - Gold
    Cattle - Goats - Sheep
    Spear - Sword - Bow

    And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats. Ezekiel 34:17

    Therefore set I in the lower places behind the wall, and on the higher places, I even set the people after their families with their swords, their spears, and their bows. Nehemiah 4:13



    The cattle are spears:

    Rebuke the company of spearmen, the multitude of the bulls, with the calves of the people, till every one submit himself with pieces of silver: scatter thou the people that delight in war. Psalm 68:30


    The goats are swords:

    So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. Genesis 3:24

    We gat our bread with the peril of our lives because of the sword of the wilderness. Lamentations 5:9

    For the Lord shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the Lord; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody. Isaiah 51:3

    Thus saith the Lord, The people which were left of the sword found grace in the wilderness; even Israel, when I went to cause him to rest. Jeremiah 31:2

    And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness. Leviticus 16:21





    But have you heard there is also a serpent in Eden?


    And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: John 3:14

    Though he heap up silver as the dust, and prepare raiment as the clay; Job 27:16

    The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord. Isaiah 65:25


    So what are your thoughts about putting men, women, and children to the sword?
    Do you know what I mean?
     
  3. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, this has nothing to do with what I was asking you. You have nothing and your claim of having a sword is meaningless.
     
  4. WonderingWorrier

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    I'm talking about determining the validity of a prophecy.

    Please listen.

    Eden the sword is a fig tree:


    Brass - Silver - Gold
    Spear - Sword - Bow
    Moon - Star - Sun
    Pomegranate - Fig - Apple

    Perhaps you have heard of getting the Golden Apple.


    Have you heard of the Brass Pomegranate?
    And a chapiter of brass was upon it; and the height of one chapiter was five cubits, with network and pomegranates upon the chapiters round about, all of brass. The second pillar also and the pomegranates were like unto these. Jeremiah 52:22



    Signs, miracles, and prophecies don't have to happen like you expect them to happen.

    And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation. Mark 8:12



    And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring. Luke 21:25

    Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Behold, I will send upon them the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, and will make them like vile figs, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil. Jeremiah 29:17

    Then said the Lord unto me, What seest thou, Jeremiah? And I said, Figs; the good figs, very good; and the evil, very evil, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil. Jeremiah 24:3



    This verse shows understanding the figs:

    There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 1 Corinthians 15:41



    As in this prophecy:

    And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. Revelation 6:13


    Eden is the sword, Eden is the star, Eden is the fig tree.

    So Adam and Eve did have fig leaves in Eden.
     
  5. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it's still just wordplay.
     
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  6. Marcion

    Marcion gopa of humanity's controversial Taraka Brahma

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    And how do we as mere humans establish who got which status?
     
  7. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    We read the scriptures which say who got the status.
    Then we research who got the status ti determine if we believe they are really prophets, if that is possible.
     
  8. WonderingWorrier

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    Yes. And only certain people around the world speak exactly the same wordplay.
    All so-called prophets can be sorted by their words. Those that speak the language of the prophets, and those that do not.

    That is how to determine the validity of a prophecy.

    Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. John 8:43



    Then will I make their waters deep, and cause their rivers to run like oil, saith the Lord God. Ezekiel 32:14

    The river is at a higher level than the sea.

    Have you heard that the Sea was made to be higher than the whole earth?

    Sea - River - Stream
    Valley - Hill - Mountain

    The pastures are clothed with flocks; the valleys also are covered over with corn; they shout for joy, they also sing. Psalm 65:13

    Can you hear the sound of the mountain stream?
    The rivers are running as oil:

    Brass - Silver - Gold
    Spear - Sword - Bow
    Corn - Oil - Wine

    And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel. Hosea 2:22

    Yea, the Lord will answer and say unto his people, Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen: Joel 2:19

    Then brought all Judah the tithe of the corn and the new wine and the oil unto the treasuries. Nehemiah 13:12


    And his offering was one silver charger, the weight thereof was an hundred and thirty shekels, one silver bowl of seventy shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary; both of them were full of fine flour mingled with oil for a meat offering: Numbers 7:13



    Eden the Sword is Oil.
    Do you understand?


    The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords. Psalm 55:21



    Please consider this prophecy:
    Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt. Amos 9:13

    (The hills melt as silver is melted)

    Brass - Silver - Gold
    Valley - Hill - Mountain
    Corn - Oil - Wine
    Spear - Sword - Bow


    Cattle - Goats - Sheep
    Corn - Oil - Wine

    For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? 1 Corinthians 9:9
     
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  9. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    If it's wordplay, then it fails at point 5.
     
  10. WonderingWorrier

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    #5 The prophecy is specific and is not open to interpretation.

    Please follow mighty:

    And the Lord brought us forth out of Egypt with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with great terribleness, and with signs, and with wonders: Deuteronomy 26:8



    Find every sentence in the bible that has the word "mighty".

    Read them. Look where the word is placed.


    Then the Lord awaked as one out of sleep, and like a mighty man that shouteth by reason of wine. Psalm 78:65

    Then we can talk about the many sentences without interpretation.
    We can follow the mighty word together.
     
  11. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    I can point to lots of sentences that all contain a particular word. It means nothing. It certainly doesn't mean that all these sentences are part of a prophecy.

    Your claim is still wordplay.
     
  12. WonderingWorrier

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    Its about the other words within the sentence structure.
    The word mighty is in the level of wine and bow.

    All prophets words are part of all prophecies.
    All prophets speak the same language. Their sentences are fragments of wheel.

    The wheel is the law.
    And it is a map of the heavens.

    I have been showing you three of the four directions of words.
    When I mentioned where Moses went I had mentioned the four directions.


    So this is where it gets more complicated:
    There are actually three positions in each of the four directions.

    I could show you how the words move into their 12 positions.


    That would show you how these prophecies happen:

    The lion eating straw with the Ox.
    And the wolf dwelling with lamb.

    Are you ready?
     
  13. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    Yeah.

    That's called wordplay.

    You said you had a sword that could turn other swords into dust. You've not provided a sword, and the actual sword I have on display in my living room is still intact.

    Your claim fails at point 5.
     
  14. WonderingWorrier

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    Are you still stuck back there?
    I thought I had made it clear what I was talking about. You are the one who made my words into being about a replica sword in your lounge. Not me.

    I have showed a lot of details about how my sword of the bible turned into dust.

    I have also explained many bible prophecies and stories including the Exodus out of Egypt, The flood, and Eden, etc. You don't disagree with me. You just keep saying its wordplay.

    Yes the bible is full of word play. I have been telling you that. Repeatedly.

    Please try to keep up.


    The wordplay I show was not found in the words of Nostradamus.
    And it was not found in the words of Baha'u'llah.
    But it was found in the Quran.

    So I accept the words of Muhammad, based on logic and reason: The wordplay.


    Thus do We explain the signs in detail: that the way of the sinners may be shown up. Muhammad 6:55

    Or thinkest thou that most of them listen or understand? They are only like cattle; nay, they are worse astray in path. Muhammad 25:44

    Many are the jinns and men we have made for hell: They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle, nay more misguided: for they are heedless of warning. Muhammad 7:179

    Say. "The truth is from your Lord" Let him who will believe, and let him who will reject it: For the wrong-doers We have prepared a Fire whose smoke and flames, like the walls and roof of a tent, will hem them in: if they implore relief they will be granted water like melted brass, that will scald their faces, how dreadful the drink! How uncomfortable couch to recline on! Muhammad 18:29


    Hell sounds bad. But notice the use of cattle, tent, and brass.

    For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness. Psalm 84:10


    It is not as bad as it sounds.
    And verily in cattle (too) will ye find an instructive sign. From what is within their bodies between excretions and blood, We produce, for your drink, milk, pure and agreeable to those who drink it. Muhammad 16:66
     
  15. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't matter. If it's wordplay, it fails at point five.
     
  16. WonderingWorrier

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    Why do you think it doesn't matter? Please explain.
     
  17. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    Because you are relying on metaphor when you call it a sword. That forces it to be open to interpretation. If it's open to interpretation, then it fails at Point 5.
     
  18. WonderingWorrier

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    But a message in code would not be open to interpretation.
    Its meaning is specific but hidden.

    Do you agree?
     
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  19. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I do not think our friend understands why there are 'hidden messages' in prophecies. He thinks they should be easy for everyone to decipher, like a car repair manual, not open to interpretation.
     
  20. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I do.

    But you have not shown that you have the correct codebook.
     
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