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"Destruction of property is not a valid form of protest"

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Jesus:
101197186_10158726977353296_4748466686556897280_n.jpg
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I don't support destroying or looting stores, especially small locally owned stores which are already struggling, but you make a good point.
Looting sends a terrible message.

What's the real reason of rioting?

Standing up to your oppressors, or is it that golden opportunity of smash-and-grab lifting that nice 50 inch color television from a store that has nothing to do with the situation whatsoever? Plus any other spoils of war a person can get their hands on with that glorious five finger discount.

I have to applaud you Frank for being down there for the real reason, and not seeing it as an opportunity for smash-and-grab.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Looting sends a terrible message.

What's the real reason of rioting?

Standing up to your oppressors, or is it that golden opportunity of smash-and-grab lifting that nice 50 inch color television from a store that has nothing to do with the situation whatsoever? Plus any other spoils of war a person can get their hands on with that glorious five finger discount.

I have to applaud you Frank for being down there for the real reason, and not seeing it as an opportunity for smash-and-grab.
Thanks.

There's some things people need to understand about these protests. They're not strictly organized. People just ultimately show up. There are people with bullhorns trying to direct things as well as medical help for those injured, gassed or maced. We all had access to water, milk, face wipes, snacks and medics and nurses were throughout the crowd. So there's many seasoned activists trying to direct things. They can only hope people listen, but it's ultimately up to the individual. The vast majority do, though.

I showed up because I wanted to see what was going on downtown (we got an official civic emergency order to stay away from downtown in Columbus). A lot of people were scared that the police were going to start killing people. So I went because I wanted to see it for myself and also because of the injustice being committed. (I have a fair amount of footage to upload.)

Now, there's other people at these protests who don't really care about the issue at hand. Some are agents provocateurs who have an agenda to sabotage these protests (which are mostly peaceful with non-violent civil disobedience like MLK taught, since most people aren't monsters, after all). These people are usually tied with the cops or maybe are white supremacists pretending to be protesters. Then there's the opportunists who think it's entertaining and join in because they want things to get ****ed up and have fun. Both of these groups are a minority but they get the majority of media coverage.

Another aspect is the economic one. To be honest, the biggest divider in the US is between rich and poor. The US is rapidly falling to third world status in terms of the extremes of poverty that exist, when just a few decades ago most of us could reasonably pursue a middle class lifestyle. That is a very quick fall and it's only getting worse. The explosion of suicide, alcoholism and drug addiction are symptoms of this. The suicide rate in America has been climbing each year for over a decade. So this naturally leads to animosity towards the well off, who are mostly well off because they were born that way (like Trump) and not some rags to riches story that rarely happens. This is creating a power keg.

So, some are viewing the looting as a form of economic justice for the poor against the rich. Because what makes the rich so entitled to material goods over the poor? You can argue that most didn't earn it, meanwhile the poor and working class spend their whole lives working themselves literally to death with nothing to show for it while being leeched off of by the rich. Why should the rich have Whole Foods where they can buy great, healthy food in their neighborhoods while the poor are stuck with convenience stores where they can only buy junk food, for the most part?

So there's various ways of looking at it. I still don't support the violence and destruction because it won't help communicating our cause to wider society. It probably doesn't really matter when stores of huge corporations like Target or Walmart are looted because they're part of the problem and can take the hit. Same with Rodeo Drive in LA being looted like hell. Who's really going to cry about that? But small local stores? That's a tragedy and indefensible. In that case, you're only hurting people who are hurting like you, especially if it's in less well off areas.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I don't support destroying or looting stores, especially small locally owned stores which are already struggling, but you make a good point.
Even the big chains, those loses come out of raises, earnings shares, and other employee bonuses. The Left needs to get together (metaphorically, or whatever) to collectively condemn the destruction , looting, and arson as anti-worker and thus counter revolutionary. It drives a knife into the heart of those they claim to be fighting for.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Many victims of the looting and vandalism are often small business owners who are themselves members of these marginalized communities; innocent victims who've nothing to do with what's being protested. You cannot fight injustice with injustice.
But that said, most of those looting and vandalizing tend to be either agent provocateurs or opportunists taking advantage of the chaos rather than genuine protestors.
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Many victims of the looting and vandalism are often small business owners who are themselves members of these marginalized communities; innocent victims who've nothing to do with what's being protested. You cannot fight injustice with injustice.
But that said, most of those looting and vandalizing tend to be either agent provocateurs or opportunists taking advantage of the chaos rather than genuine protestors.
I've also seen the point made that a lot of places, the "genuine" (for want of a better term, i.e. not bussed in people trying to make black people look bad) looting avoids the locally and/or minority owned owned small businesses. Large corporate places, often with poor local community relations are the ones being targeted.

This is anecdotal, of course, so take it with as large a grain of salt as you feel appropriate. But it was an interesting claim, and further undermines the "these "thugs" don't care about their communities" narrative the Usual Suspects are pushing.
 
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columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
So there's many seasoned activists trying to direct things. They can only hope people listen, but it's ultimately up to the individual. The vast majority do, though.
This is exactly where the problem comes in.

In a crowd of 5000, 90% could be peaceful but loud and inconvenient. But the other remaining 10%(500 people) are a combination of miscreants hoping to "liberate" some expensive gear, drunken yahoos having a "Hold my beer and watch this!" moment, extremists(ranging from Antifa to KKK, and cops trying to up the ante for various reasons. Local and outsiders. With a batch of overlap amongst them. And they're all mixed together. And I could believe that outsiders are overrepresented in arrests because the locals know how to get away and outsiders don't, and locals are more likely to be protected by the rest of the crowd. Media is far more likely to report the drama and ignore the reasonable behavior.

There's just so many variables here that I can't feel confident about much of anything.

Tom
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Didn't Lincoln and the Northern Unionists launch a hugely destructive war to rescue black people from oppression?
Tom
 

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member

First off, do you support destruction of innocent people's property? Secondly, I thought that churchgoers and protesters on the right were supposed to be rounded up, arrested, and quarantined for fear of spreading Coronavirus. I see a double standard. Protesting during covid is "bad" , "childish", and "kills people" unless it's liberals protesting in which case it's a good thing?
 

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
I don't support destroying or looting stores, especially small locally owned stores which are already struggling, but you make a good point.

No he doesn't. If anyone's property should be destroyed, it's the property of that horrible murderous cop, not the property of random innocent people. The protesters lose all credibility when they target people who have nothing to do with the Floyd murder.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
No he doesn't. If anyone's property should be destroyed, it's the property of that horrible murderous cop, not the property of random innocent people. The protesters lose all credibility when they target people who have nothing to do with the Floyd murder.
He has a good point about people's double standards, as in the examples he provided.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
been a few years.....
but someone with a lot a cops pointing guns at him....
went for his wallet to offer id

and all the cops shot him

I think it was a white guy that died

not sure

but does that matter?
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
and the property wasn't altogether destroyed
I'll have you know that, though it isn't pictured here because of the camera angle, there was an ancient mesopotamian vase on that table worth 23 shekels (6.5 billion u.s. dollars with inflation), and it was totally destroyed.
 
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