Desire

[Electra]

I am curious as to it seems like in modern religion there is a motion that there is a goal to have less 'desire'

there is always a will before a way

even to be desire-less is a desire

how do you feel?

 

[Sunstone]

So...what do you desire to discuss or debate?

 

[Electra]

should it be a goal to be free from desire?

is desire inherently hindering?

should you let another tell you what you should/shouldn't desire?

is there always going to be desire?

is following desire going to entail feeling more satisfied?

is true desire from past/present/future combined?

how do you yourself define desire?

do you correlate true desire to true will? therefore the light to guide our most fulfilling path?

should we dictate/judge others desires?

is there always a will (desire) before a way (action)?

any of the above or whatever you desire​

 

[Sunstone]

Those are all questions you can look and see for yourself what the answers to them are. You don't need to debate them. You just look, observe, through meditation, the nature and movement of desire.

Talking about them -- when you can actually look for yourself -- is a wee bit like talking about sex and then claiming you have lost your virginity during the conversation.

 

[Electra]

@Sunstone

I know what I believe to be true for my self,

I use this forum to strengthen what I know, and to put thoughts out into the interwebs
it is good to hear other opinions because it challenges and strengthens your own
I am not looking for answers
I have the answers

 

[`mud]

Talk about being lost in the fray,
tooooooo...old
But a cold beer would be fine,
and then we'll talk.
about the days when I had `desires`.
Now!!!! Get the beer !

 

[Electra]

Talk about being lost in the fray,
tooooooo...old
But a cold beer would be fine,
and then we'll talk.
about the days when I had `desires`.
Now!!!! Get the beer !

that's no way to talk to yourself

 

[Valjean]

Eliminating desire strikes me as a Buddhist goal, not anything I've ever seen in Christian denominations. Although the bible warns of the dangers of wealth, Christians seem eager to acquire it.

 

[Srivijaya]

about the days when I had `desires`.
Now!!!! Get the beer !

Desiring a beer. Cheers

 

[Srivijaya]

Eliminating desire strikes me as a Buddhist goal

It is. We inhabit a space called the Desire Realm. But what does that mean?

Everything.

We inhabit it because we desire to. We desire the sensory nutrition which can only come from inhabiting a dualistic sphere.

But there are degrees of experience, from earthworms to humans - all desire driven, which is kind of worrying if its a bad re-birth. Both burrow their way through space-time, ingesting and excreting as they go; thoughts, feelings, impressions, identities, food and everything else.

This is our set-up and we cannot "physically" change it. Born to ingest and reproduce; every cell is dedicated to it one way or another.

Nirvana is the cessation of that underlying desire, so that the duality will not arise again.

But the Mahayana school claim that enlightened beings return again - tantra too. Within desire but detached and free from it, to rescue those who are ready to be rescued. And the rest?

...Perhaps just not yet.

 

[WalterTrull]

I am curious as to it seems like in modern religion there is a motion that there is a goal to have less 'desire'

Not sure what "modern" religion is to you. However, I don't see any move to get rid of desire in general. I feel that religion usually just tries to point out which desires, if followed, lead to unsatisfactory results. I think you'll find a desire for enlightenment quite ubiquitous.

 

[Nakosis]

I am curious as to it seems like in modern religion there is a motion that there is a goal to have less 'desire'

there is always a will before a way

even to be desire-less is a desire

how do you feel?

There's generally good desires and bad desires. Even Buddhism has it idea of right thought right action.

So you curtail the "bad" desires and support the "good" ones.

Christianity has its idea of seven virtues and seven deadly sins. These are really desires. You don't want your "bad" desires to hold control over your actions. Good desires, it's ok to give into.

 

[sun rise]

even to be desire-less is a desire

You asked a very deep question. I'm fond of the Kabir poem that expresses this dilemma in emotional as well as desire terms:

Friend, please tell me what I can do about this world
I hold to, and keep spinning out!

I gave up sewn clothes, and wore a robe,
but I noticed one day that the cloth was well woven.

So I bought some burlap, but I still
throw it elegantly over my left shoulder

I pulled back my sexual longings,
and now I discover that I'm angry a lot.

I gave up rage, and now I notice
that I am greedy all day.

I worked hard at dissolving the greed,
and now I am proud of myself.

When the mind wants to break its link with the world
it still holds on to one thing.

Kabir says: Listen my friend,
there are very few that find the path!

 

[Quintessence]

When you say "modern religion," @Electra , what traditions are coming to mind?

When I hear that term, I think of more contemporary religious movements that are quite progressive on the idea of desire compared to the more conservative and puritanical status quo of my country. I think about modern religious movements like my own that in many respects are deliberately countercultural in their approach to the subject of desire. I think of the typical understanding of magic in modern occult traditions that are all about properly channeling your desires to achieve wanted results. I think about progressive Christianity whose modern manifestations are okay with sex before marriage and allocating time and space to one's desires. My mind also turns to modern capitalism (which might as well be the modern state religion in my country), where indulgence of desire is the currency of the day. On the whole, it seems to me that modern religion does not teach self-restraint.

It is what it is. As a non-dualist, I'm not one to simplify the situation into "this good, that bad." It's both, neither; it is what it is. Beyond that what you say is a measure of your personal values.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I am curious as to it seems like in modern religion there is a motion that there is a goal to have less 'desire'

there is always a will before a way

even to be desire-less is a desire

how do you feel?

It seems to me that an essential component of happiness is contentment with what you have, which is really only possible when basic needs are met - food, shelter, love, dignity, etc..

But that is the case for many, and being content living modestly and humbly is a much better life than always wanting more. That idea didn't come to me from any religion.

Other meanings for desire, such as wanting a good education, wanting find a good mate, and wanting world peace are not going to interfere with happiness. It;s the desire for more wealth, fame, and power than one needs that seems to degrade life.

 

[`mud]

Been married 60 years in June......... with the same woman !
Hey 'It aint',
match that !
Don't need much more !

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Been married 60 years in June......... with the same woman !
Hey 'It aint',
match that !
Don't need much more !

Congratulation !

I can't match that. 28 years in October.

Yes, being happily married adds considerably to life. I've also been unhappily married.

The desire issue raises its ugly head here when one desires multiple partners in a relationship where that is not explicitly permitted.

 

[WalterTrull]

Been married 60 years in June......... with the same woman !
Hey 'It aint',
match that !
Don't need much more !

Congratulations! Ya got me by 20 years. 40 years married this month. (1st one only lasted 4 years) It's a learning experience.

 

[ajay0]

I am curious as to it seems like in modern religion there is a motion that there is a goal to have less 'desire'

there is always a will before a way

even to be desire-less is a desire

how do you feel?

It is not desire , but feverishness that arises from desire that is the culprit.

Desire in the form of cravings and aversions, creates the ego or false self, as per dharmic philosophies.

Intelligence can frame one's goals and duties, but there is no need to pursue them with the feverishness of desire, which agitates the mind and reduces mental equanimity. Also greater the mental agitation or feverishness, greater the chances for error, reactivity and conflict, mental distress or suffering when one does not get the object of desire even if it is not that significant.

 

[stvdv]

I am curious as to it seems like in modern religion there is a motion that there is a goal to have less 'desire'
there is always a will before a way
even to be desire-less is a desire
how do you feel?

The richest man is he who has the least desires
It's a good exersize/goal to overcome attachment to desires
To say "desire-less is a desire" is a nice way to put yourself on halt
Smarter is to give up "attachment to detachment" as the last one