Desire for Belief

[NIX]

I have done some actual spellcraft and am familiar to a small degree with how it overlaps with other practices. I just don't... Believe. Even though I want to.

The suspension of disbelief while not the same as belief proper, will also open gateways to 'other-worlds' (and make you far more versitile besides). If you can accept the subjective reality, or your subjective experience of reality, AS 'the (actual) reality of your reality', no belief is required. Belief can be so easily substituted by (the Creation of) Your Own experience of life/reality, and the chosen 'State (residence) of Your Being' (or the paradigm in which you have chosen to 'move and have your being'). Everybody views the world through the lense/s of their own psyche. No one is exempt from this. May as well choose your own lenses to suit your more creative and positively inspired self. All the more chances that the state of your creativity and inspiration will give rise to inspired creativity in your everyday life and works.

Another way to describe the Suspension of Disbelief is Living "As If". In terms of transformitive magic, it could be called Psychodrama with (a) Purpose.

 

[NIX]

My life used to be ruled by belief. (deliniated, lined)
After years of such, I can clearly say I MUCH prefer suspension of disbelief.

While I am no longer capable of full blown belief of any kind really,
I much more appreciate the freedom and experience of life grounded on a levitated foundation.
I live "As If", and I know it. I'm good with it. It lowers my need for things to be 'a certain way',
making me freer to move beyond 'the world's' (society's) 'normal' expectations.
And it's alot more fun! It makes ME more fun.

 

[islam abduallah]

I've been looking for five years.

not too much ,some people spent 40 years,so don't loss the hope and keep knocking the door, it would be opened one day

 

[aewbarnes]

I believe all creatures have an instinctual connection to a greater energy of the cosmos and since they don't reason or question, this connection just is and remains un-tarnished. I only need think of our old family dog. I had moved away a couple of years previously yet when I came back to visit, apparently, the dog knew I was on my way a couple streets away. The way even wild animals will seem to be less wary of people marked for their kindness to animals is another indicator. Anyhow, I think we too had this instinctual connection but because we evolved into reasoning beings, we had to come up, as a species, for this feeling of connectedness so created our myths to account for it. I'm not saying that the spiritual realms don't exist. Quite to contrary, I believe they do exist, everywhere, and in more variety and vastness than we have only scratched upon. What I am saying is that myths, legends and religions going right back to the earliest worship of the sun, moon and nature spritis are simply our attempts to make it all make sense. Later religious founders were more deliberate. They had their revelations and were no doubt very 'spiritually' advanced, but having realised that most people wouldn't be able to grasp the full truth, they shared their knowledge, again, through story and allegory. Believe what ever makes sense to you. It doesn't matter what symbols or language you use or whether it is established doctrine or something else. If it works, work it.

 

[Iti oj]

Ehhh I agree with most. Especially the part about the doctor. But the god concept does nothing for me.

 

[Drolefille]

I believe all creatures have an instinctual connection to a greater energy of the cosmos and since they don't reason or question, this connection just is and remains un-tarnished. I only need think of our old family dog. I had moved away a couple of years previously yet when I came back to visit, apparently, the dog knew I was on my way a couple streets away. The way even wild animals will seem to be less wary of people marked for their kindness to animals is another indicator. Anyhow, I think we too had this instinctual connection but because we evolved into reasoning beings, we had to come up, as a species, for this feeling of connectedness so created our myths to account for it. I'm not saying that the spiritual realms don't exist. Quite to contrary, I believe they do exist, everywhere, and in more variety and vastness than we have only scratched upon. What I am saying is that myths, legends and religions going right back to the earliest worship of the sun, moon and nature spritis are simply our attempts to make it all make sense. Later religious founders were more deliberate. They had their revelations and were no doubt very 'spiritually' advanced, but having realised that most people wouldn't be able to grasp the full truth, they shared their knowledge, again, through story and allegory. Believe what ever makes sense to you. It doesn't matter what symbols or language you use or whether it is established doctrine or something else. If it works, work it.

I have two thoughts here, one is that every creature may have this desire, but many humans do not find belief necessary, and many have the desire and successfully found it. The other is that zI don't feel like I can just believe whatever I want, as I want it to be real in some sort of, not necessarily ultimate, sense.

not too much ,some people spent 40 years,so don't loss the hope and keep knocking the door, it would be opened one day

That's depressing honestly, if there is soemthing out there,why couldnt it make a bit of effort and talk to me now?

My life used to be ruled by belief. (deliniated, lined)
After years of such, I can clearly say I MUCH prefer suspension of disbelief.

While I am no longer capable of full blown belief of any kind really,
I much more appreciate the freedom and experience of life grounded on a levitated foundation.
I live "As If", and I know it. I'm good with it. It lowers my need for things to be 'a certain way',
making me freer to move beyond 'the world's' (society's) 'normal' expectations.
And it's alot more fun! It makes ME more fun.

I am very much a skeptic by default.I have no problem losing myself in a book,but I tend to play devil's advocate in the traditional sense of the term in real life.

The suspension of disbelief while not the same as belief proper, will also open gateways to 'other-worlds' (and make you far more versitile besides). If you can accept the subjective reality, or your subjective experience of reality, AS 'the (actual) reality of your reality', no belief is required. Belief can be so easily substituted by (the Creation of) Your Own experience of life/reality, and the chosen 'State (residence) of Your Being' (or the paradigm in which you have chosen to 'move and have your being'). Everybody views the world through the lense/s of their own psyche. No one is exempt from this. May as well choose your own lenses to suit your more creative and positively inspired self. All the more chances that the state of your creativity and inspiration will give rise to inspired creativity in your everyday life and works.

Another way to describe the Suspension of Disbelief is Living "As If". In terms of transformitive magic, it could be called Psychodrama with (a) Purpose.

I can see things from other perspectives, but haven't been successful at maintaining any sort of frame for life based on it. I would love for fairies to be real - not nice as they may be- but I trend towards analysis rather than acceptance of a framing method.

(mobile posting.apologies for spelling/formatting)

 

[Quintessence]

That's depressing honestly, if there is soemthing out there,why couldnt it make a bit of effort and talk to me now?

Ah, maybe that is part of the trouble source: expecting something to reach out and talk to you. It happens for some people. Other times it does not, particularly when one's expectations get in the way. Expectations such as anticipating the communication to be talking, especially in transparent, easily understood English. When I experience Storm Spirit, for example, the "conversation" definitely does not take place in English.

The advice I have is to seek that which hides in plain sight. Something as unassuming as a pile of dirt can "talk" to you when you listen.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

I'm trying to understand why I want to believe so bad. The thing is, that it's not just religion. I want to believe in magic and fairies and dragons and portals to another world and that The Doctor could land on my balcony in his big blue box and whisk me away to another world. I want the possibility to be there.

I never want to lose the perspective of a child, where anything can happen just around the corner. I want it ALL to be real. And similarly I want faith, I want there to be something out there, but I'm not happy unless I actually feel like I know what it is. I can't just guess, I have to know what truth is.

But I don't believe.

Can anyone else relate?

Yes I relate. I really feel for you. I'm one of those who has been on that 40-or-so years path--and I don't expect to be done when this lifetime ends. My key has been learning to live with ambiguity, understanding that whatever I can and do now KNOW, I know that there is more that I do not know, and cannot know...and much that I don't want to know, frankly. The spirits showed me, back when I was young and still thought myself invincible and powerful, that I was not. I had much learning and unlearning to do. I've done a lot of both over the past several decades, especially the last few years, although I seem to be moving more slowly now. But that may change at any time. I still want to know, but I recognize that there are some things I can't KNOW in the sense I can know other things. I guess I would say I've learned to be patient about those things.

Not that I would expect that information to be helpful to you. But I implore you to keep on traveling down the searching path; I am confident the spirits will provide you what you need to know, and show you the boundaries where you aren't ready to go yet.

 

[islam abduallah]

That's depressing honestly, if there is soemthing out there,why couldnt it make a bit of effort and talk to me now?

(mobile posting.apologies for spelling/formatting)

maybe it talks but you don't recognize it

 

[NIX]

I am very much a skeptic by default.I have no problem losing myself in a book,but I tend to play devil's advocate in the traditional sense of the term in real life.


I can see things from other perspectives, but haven't been successful at maintaining any sort of frame for life based on it. I would love for fairies to be real - not nice as they may be- but I trend towards analysis rather than acceptance of a framing method.

Get a couple of 'fairy art' tarot decks and analyze yourself - and your life - through them. The spreads will become as a frame that you can see and analyze self and life through. These fairies will tell and show you things.

I'm attempting to point towards something, not sell you on anything. If the heart of your desire is (hardcore) BELIEF itself, I have no advice. If you want a life filled with the experience and interaction of fairies, maybe re- consider what I might be trying to get at.

 

[Noguchi]

I was just watching a show on History Channel Japan called "Decoding God" (I think) and it actually spoke about the need for humans to believe in things, the God gene, the Holy Grail, etc... I don't remember a lot of it because I had it on more for noise but you might want to check that out. While by no means is it a perfect answer it may open a window where a door has been shut.

All the best;
Noguchi

 

[Badran]

I'm trying to understand why I want to believe so bad. The thing is, that it's not just religion. I want to believe in magic and fairies and dragons and portals to another world and that The Doctor could land on my balcony in his big blue box and whisk me away to another world. I want the possibility to be there.

I never want to lose the perspective of a child, where anything can happen just around the corner. I want it ALL to be real. And similarly I want faith, I want there to be something out there, but I'm not happy unless I actually feel like I know what it is. I can't just guess, I have to know what truth is.

But I don't believe.

Can anyone else relate?

I can't relate to the first part at all. But i completely relate to the underlined part.

This is the reason i currently hold no specific beliefs. Because hoping for something is not good enough reason for me to embrace it as reality, or believe in it.

The reason i think people might want this, to believe in more, is quite simply because that this more is better. It's usually either more motivating, more positive, more fair, more intriguing etc..and possibly all of those things.

At least that is the way it is in my personal case. I want there to be more because the more that i hope for is better.

 

[Adi Baba]

If you don't believe in anything then you become a nihilist, and nihilist are no fun.

 

[Iti oj]

If you don't believe in anything then you become a nihilist, and nihilist are no fun.

False and maybe,

 

[Drolefille]

H

If you don't believe in anything then you become a nihilist, and nihilist are no fun.

How do you figure?

 

[Adi Baba]

Well they seem to poo on everyone else's beliefs, and in my wide amount of encounters with proclaimed nihilist (some simplyclaim to be intellectuals ) they seem to either
A) have a hard drug problem
B) think they are a gift to humanity and are perfect in every way
C) think anyone who isn't a nihilist is a delusional fool.

Remember Nihilism is identifies with the belief of having no beliefs whatsoever, religious, political, or otherwise.

 

[Drolefille]

Well they seem to poo on everyone else's beliefs, and in my wide amount of encounters with proclaimed nihilist (some simplyclaim to be intellectuals ) they seem to either
A) have a hard drug problem
B) think they are a gift to humanity and are perfect in every way
C) think anyone who isn't a nihilist is a delusional fool.

Remember Nihilism is identifies with the belief of having no beliefs whatsoever, religious, political, or otherwise.

As I stated that I am someone desiring of belief, how do you find this to be relevant?

Are you suggesting that I should just pick something to believe in so I don't choose a belief system you disagree with?

I don't understand why you decided to bring this up here.

 

[idav]

I'm trying to understand why I want to believe so bad. The thing is, that it's not just religion. I want to believe in magic and fairies and dragons and portals to another world and that The Doctor could land on my balcony in his big blue box and whisk me away to another world. I want the possibility to be there.

I never want to lose the perspective of a child, where anything can happen just around the corner. I want it ALL to be real. And similarly I want faith, I want there to be something out there, but I'm not happy unless I actually feel like I know what it is. I can't just guess, I have to know what truth is.

But I don't believe.

Can anyone else relate?

I can relate. I always try and stick to being hopeful and reasonably optimistic. Tomorrow can't always be known so there will always be room for a little mystery.

“There is no medicine like hope, no incentive so great, and no tonic so powerful as expectation of something tomorrow.”

- Orison Swett Marden​

 

[Drolefille]

So an update from the past week. I participated in a Samhain ritual this past weekend.
It was awesome in the sense that it inspired awe. I needed to hear some of the things that I was told on a very personal level. Whether it game from the goddess in question, or my friend who had invoked her, I don't honestly know. I am very deliberately suspending my disbelief and trying to just... go with it? It was not only helpful then but has given me several methods of dealing with some stressful emotions in what has been a roller coaster of a year.

So, that said, I was given a ritual by an acquaintance to perform this evening in particular. While I found it personally... cathartic?.. I did not feel anything else. But I'm going to wait and see if anything else comes from it. I'm trying to have an open mind which feels like such a contradiction since I want to believe so you would think I wouldn't have to try so hard.

It's not something that is easy.

 

[Dingbat]

So an update from the past week. I participated in a Samhain ritual this past weekend.
It was awesome in the sense that it inspired awe. I needed to hear some of the things that I was told on a very personal level. Whether it game from the goddess in question, or my friend who had invoked her, I don't honestly know. I am very deliberately suspending my disbelief and trying to just... go with it? It was not only helpful then but has given me several methods of dealing with some stressful emotions in what has been a roller coaster of a year.

So, that said, I was given a ritual by an acquaintance to perform this evening in particular. While I found it personally... cathartic?.. I did not feel anything else. But I'm going to wait and see if anything else comes from it. I'm trying to have an open mind which feels like such a contradiction since I want to believe so you would think I wouldn't have to try so hard.

It's not something that is easy.

I think going into it with an open mind is essential regardless of the faith you are investigating. I know that is what led me initially to Islam though homophobia quickly led to an about face. The biggest thing I did gather from it and was already something I was beginning to get the idea from in regards to my studies of Buddhism is that ritual is spiritually important to me. It is mostly cathartic as you stated but there is also something else to it an inner peace. That I have only found through meditation and Salat.

Keep an open mind and keep looking and maybe you will find what you need. I know that is my current mantra.