Departures from mainstream Islamic thought?

[Gaura Priya]

I was wondering the other night if anyone with a world view like mine has ever taken a 'pick and mix' approach to Islam? One that would use the native language, be liberal etc etc?

Universal Sufism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Have you ever thought of Universal Súfísm? The movement originally began with Islámic influence or elements, but have universalised them to be more easily nativised for others. One would recite the prayers in English, take Scriptures from many of the world's religions, and also have a tradition.

Here are the Ten Thoughts of Universal Súfísm, by Hazrat Ináyat Khán:

• There is one God the Eternal, the Only Being, None exists save God
• There is one master the Guiding Spirit of all souls, who constantly leads all followers toward the Light.
• There is one Holy Book the sacred manuscript of nature, the only scripture that can enlighten the reader.
• There is one Religion the unswerving progress in the right direction, toward the Ideal, which fulfills the life's purpose of every soul
• There is one Law, the Law of Reciprocity, which can be observed by a selfless conscience together with a sense of awakened justice
• There is one Family, the human family, which unites the children of Earth indiscriminately in the parenthood of God
• There is one Moral Principle the love which springs forth from a willing heart, surrendered in service to God and humanity, and which blooms in deeds of beneficence
• There is one Object of Praise, the beauty which uplifts the heart of its worshipper through all aspects, from the seen to the unseen
• There is one Truth the true knowledge of our being, within and without, which is the essence of Wisdom
• There is one Path the effacement of the limited self in the unlimited, which raises the mortal to immortality, in which resides all Perfection

 

[Gharib]

This is misleading on two counts:

• The Baha'i Faith is very much mainstream (being one of the five Abrahamic religions).
• And the Baha'i Faith is "Islamic" only in its roots as its practices and teachings are extremely different from those of Islam!

Peace,

Bruce

why is the Baha'i faith an Abrahamic one when it also believes in Dharmic religions? shouldn't it be a religion of it own rather than associate it's self to the Abrahamic faith, which denies polytheism, unlike Baha'i?

 

[Gaura Priya]

why is the Baha'i faith an Abrahamic one when it also believes in Dharmic religions? shouldn't it be a religion of it own rather than associate it's self to the Abrahamic faith, which denies polytheism, unlike Baha'i?

The Baha'i Faith denies polytheism, and believes that Krishna and Buddha were Messengers of God who taught tawhid, but whose messages where later corrupt with time.

Also, Baha'u'llah is blood-related to Keturah, Abraham's wife.

 

[Gharib]

Which means, of course, that it excludes belief in "ALL" such Messengers as in the view of millions, there have been more since Muhammad!

(Not to mention which, that's only one of several disparate interpretations of the "Seal of the prophets" verse, the others of which imply no such finish.)

Peace,

Bruce

what is the baha'i interpretation of those 'seal of the prophet' verses?

 

[Gharib]

The Baha'i Faith denies polytheism, and believes that Krishna and Buddha were Messengers of God who taught tawhid, but whose messages where later corrupt with time.

Also, Baha'u'llah is blood-related to Keturah, Abraham's wife.

does the Baha'i faith denounce polytheism in it's scriptures? don't Baha'is believe that hindusim is somewhat true just as christianity and islam?

 

[Chisti]

who gets to say which of gods laws are to be followed and which are to not be followed, you or god?

EDIT: so how can one be islamic if one does unislamic stuff like dancing and singing etc?

Since no one knows for certain which are God's laws and which aren't, would it not be better to conclude that anything that encourages love, peace, and goodness is God's law and anything that doesn't is man's interpolation in those sacred texts?

For example, God says in the Old Testament, Stone children who disobey you. God says in the New Testament, Forgive everyone. Which one you think better represents God?

 

[Gaura Priya]

what is the baha'i interpretation of those 'seal of the prophet' verses?

Muhammad, may God's glory rest upon His soul, is the seal of the Nabi... but God will continue to send Rasuls to humanity. Even after Baha'u'llah, after a thousand years, there will be another Messenger.

nabi = Prophet (minor prophet)

rasul = Messenger (major prophet)

The nabi bring only a message to clarify the Books of God, and to help focus humanity. But the rasul is a Messenger, who brings about a New Revelation, a New Scripture, and completely fulfills and abrogates the older Laws of God according to the needs of the age.

So while Muhammad, the glory of God be upon Him, is the seal of the nabi, of the Prophets, God will continue to send Messengers. There will be no more nabi after Muhammad, like John the Baptist, or Aaron with Moses.

 

[Chisti]

what do you mean by liberal. it has quite a few definitions so it's best to ask which one you mean.

The same logic: anything that encourages love, peace, progress, prosperity is liberalism. Being a homophobe hurts people, so we should assume that the all-good God would never want us to hurt people. Being pro-life is being anti-woman, so we must assume that God would never want us to be sexist; so we must be pro-choice. And so it goes.

 

[Gaura Priya]

does the Baha'i faith denounce polytheism in it's scriptures? don't Baha'is believe that hindusim is somewhat true just as christianity and islam?

Yes, it does.

"Know thou of a certainty that the Unseen can in no wise incarnate His essence and reveal it unto men. He is, and hath ever been, immensely exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived... He Who is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men can never be known except through His Manifestation, and His Manifestation can adduce no greater proof of the truth of His mission than the proof of His Own Person."

-- Baha'u'llah


Baha'u'llah and the Baha'i Faith teach that God is completely unknowable, ineffable, unconceivable, and transcendent. However, His qualities can be known through His Manifestations (rasul), which They Themselves can not understand Their Messengerhood as much as the station and qualities of God, Exalted be He!

Baha'is completely accept that Buddhism and Hinduism are religions from God, because Krishna and Buddha are Messengers of God. However, Hinduism and Buddhism have corrupted Their original teachings of the Oneness of God.

 

[Bismillah]

Islam cannot be combined with the word "departure" given that the entire premise of the religion is

"la ilaha illallah "

and

"muhammad rasul allah"

The dual testimonies of the transcendence of Allah (SWT) and the approach and strict spiritual obedience to become closer to him.

To "depart" is to dilute ones faith and a departure from God. There can be no such thing as a "departure" from Islam as that is a departure from Allah and something that runs quite contrary to the religion, its tenants, and ideals.

 

[Gharib]

Since no one knows for certain which are God's laws and which aren't, would it not be better to conclude that anything that encourages love, peace, and goodness is God's law and anything that doesn't is man's interpolation in those sacred texts?

so what gave you the idea that God is all about forgiveness and love and not about punishment? don't you believe in hell or is that too an uncertain belief/concept about what God is.

For example, God says in the Old Testament, Stone children who disobey you. God says in the New Testament, Forgive everyone. Which one you think better represents God?

you are a muslim so why do you quote from the christian scripture when i was talking about islam? you know the islamic stance on the Tawrat (Bible) no point in quoting from it.

 

[Gaura Priya]

Besides, as Muslims, y'all know well that the Bible has been corrupted and tampered with throughout the passages of time. Who knows what the original Mosaic Dispensation had originally recorded and what was interpolation from man.

 

[Gharib]

Muhammad, may God's glory rest upon His soul, is the seal of the Nabi... but God will continue to send Rasuls to humanity. Even after Baha'u'llah, after a thousand years, there will be another Messenger.

nabi = Prophet (minor prophet)

rasul = Messenger (major prophet)

The nabi bring only a message to clarify the Books of God, and to help focus humanity. But the rasul is a Messenger, who brings about a New Revelation, a New Scripture, and completely fulfills and abrogates the older Laws of God according to the needs of the age.

So while Muhammad, the glory of God be upon Him, is the seal of the nabi, of the Prophets, God will continue to send Messengers. There will be no more nabi after Muhammad, like John the Baptist, or Aaron with Moses.

first of all in ordet to comment the Qur'an one must be a muslims scholar.

second, you have contradicted yourself thus it makes your statement/interpretation wrong. if you can't see where you have contradicted yourself, i will gladly point it out.

 

[Gharib]

The same logic: anything that encourages love, peace, progress, prosperity is liberalism. Being a homophobe hurts people, so we should assume that the all-good God would never want us to hurt people. Being pro-life is being anti-woman, so we must assume that God would never want us to be sexist; so we must be pro-choice. And so it goes.

so for a people/nation who go and fight wars and kill innocent people, what would be Gods law to the people who are killed?

 

[Gharib]

Islam cannot be combined with the word "departure" given that the entire premise of the religion is

"la ilaha illallah "

and

"muhammad rasul allah"

The dual testimonies of the transcendence of Allah (SWT) and the approach and strict spiritual obedience to become closer to him.

To "depart" is to dilute ones faith and a departure from God. There can be no such thing as a "departure" from Islam as that is a departure from Allah and something that runs quite contrary to the religion, its tenants, and ideals.

thats a good post. any change in islam would automaticaly mean you are not a muslim anymore because islam is what it is and the other version is something else other than islam.

 

[Chisti]

so for a people/nation who go and fight wars and kill innocent people, what would be Gods law to the people who are killed?

Nonviolent noncooperation.

 

[sandandfoam]

Universal Sufism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Have you ever thought of Universal Súfísm? The movement originally began with Islámic influence or elements, but have universalised them to be more easily nativised for others. One would recite the prayers in English, take Scriptures from many of the world's religions, and also have a tradition.

Here are the Ten Thoughts of Universal Súfísm, by Hazrat Ináyat Khán:

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Very interesting indeed.
Thank you very much.

 

[Gharib]

Nonviolent noncooperation.

thats your view, thats fine. i asked about the Law of God.

 

[Chisti]

thats your view, thats fine. i asked about the Law of God.

What do you think is the law of God in this instance - violence?

 

[Gaura Priya]

Very interesting indeed.
Thank you very much.

No problem. I think it's the closest that I can think of that would fit and match your beliefs, especially someone who wants to be Islamically inclined, that's the best in the religion-market.

Come on now, buddy! Be a Universal Sufi... make uncle Falcon proud of ya!