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Denial by non-Muslims of the Qur'an's commands to commit violence.

WonderingWorrier

Active Member
I'm pretty busy, so I don't know when I'll get to the rest of the replies, but this one can't go unchallenged. Not only can you not name one verse in which Jesus actually prompted a specific act of violence, you've jumped the shark by saying "Jesus commands violence too."
There is more than one example.

Like the one @dybmh mentioned:

"Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one" Luke 22:36

There are quite a few examples of violent Jesus.
I wondered about this one.

"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned". John 15:6

Made me think about burning those considered unchristly at the stake.

The Gospel of Luke (22:49-51) describes Jesus healing the servant of a high priest during the Arrest of Jesus after one of the followers of Jesus had cut his right ear off: When Jesus' followers saw what was going to happen, they said, "Lord, should we strike with our swords?" And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear. But Jesus answered, "No more of this!" And he touched the man's ear and healed him.

Now compare that to Mohamed's overt war-mongering and participation in OFFENSIVE campaigns.

Both Muhammad and Jesus have peaceful sayings, and also violent sayings. Just like the sayings in the old testament.
Some people might think it is contradicting to teach peace and war, although some might just ignore the sayings they dont like.
 

Dimi95

Active Member
There is more than one example.

Like the one @dybmh mentioned:

"Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one" Luke 22:36

There are quite a few examples of violent Jesus.
I wondered about this one.

"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned". John 15:6

Made me think about burning those considered unchristly at the stake.



Both Muhammad and Jesus have peaceful sayings, and also violent sayings. Just like the sayings in the old testament.
Some people might think it is contradicting to teach peace and war, although some might just ignore the sayings they dont like.

I don't think so..

The sixth piece of armor that Paul discusses in Ephesians 6 is the sword of the spirit, which represents the Word of God. For a Roman soldier, the sword served as an offensive weapon against enemies. When sharpened, the sword could pierce through just about anything, making it a very dangerous tool.

Matthew 26-51,52
"And behold, one of those who accompanied Jesus put his hand to his sword, drew it, and struck the high priest’s servant, cutting off his ear.
Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its sheath, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword."

John 15:6 - what do you know about wine , my friend?

Those who say this passage refers to unbelievers and their fate interpret the word "abide" as a synonym for "believe." They interpret the term "takes away" (airo) in verse 2 as a removal to judgment in the fire of hell described in verse 6. It is assumed in this interpretation that "fruit" refers to visible and measureable works. In summary, this view says that those who have only a superficial relationship with Jesus Christ and do not show fruit prove that they are not Christians and will perish in hell.

In John 15:6 Jesus is not teaching that fruitless superficial followers will be cast into hell. The interpretation that makes fruit-bearing a test of salvation in John 15:1-8 ignores the larger and immediate contexts as well as how words are used in the context. The result is a vague interpretation that can't actually be applied without defining objectively what fruit is and how much fruit is necessary to pass the test. A better interpretation yields a passage that deeply challenges Christians to become more intimate with the Lord Jesus Christ as a condition for bearing much fruit for His glory.

It's pointless to me to say something about violent verses in the Quran.And i don't mean it badly.
I just don't think there will be peace where there is war.
I don't like war!

I have learned recently and it's so hard for me to procces that when i have to look at verses like fisher of man i have to look deply and to find the wisdom.
Sayings like:
"If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also"
"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

And then i look at the so - called 8 beuties of Jesus :
"Blessed are the poor in spirit"
"Blessed are the meak"
"Blessed are the mercifull"
"Blaced are the peacemakers"
"Blessed are they that mourn"
"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteous"
"Blessed are the pure in heart"
"Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake"

and..

Anyone who welcomes you welcomes me, and anyone who welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. Whoever welcomes a prophet as a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward, and whoever welcomes a righteous person as a righteous person will receive a righteous person’s reward.And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones who is my disciple, truly I tell you, that person will certainly not lose their reward.”

When i looked a little deep at "cup of cold water" that melted my soul!

*For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love."
Weaknesses become assets

2 Corinthians 12:7–10
"a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong."
 
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WonderingWorrier

Active Member
I don't think so..

The sixth piece of armor that Paul discusses in Ephesians 6 is the sword of the spirit, which represents the Word of God. For a Roman soldier, the sword served as an offensive weapon against enemies. When sharpened, the sword could pierce through just about anything, making it a very dangerous tool.

What you are saying is not clear. You say the sword represents the word of God because it is a weapon against enemies, can cut through nearly anything, and is very dangerous.

So what do you think the other offensive weapons like the spears, and bows mentioned in the bible represent?

what do you know about wine , my friend?

I know wine is one of three certain things. Just as the sword is one out of a different certain three things.
Just as the Moon, the Stars and the Sun are another different certain three things. Etc.

Three things:
And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart. Psalm 104:14

Three things:
Therefore set I in the lower places behind the wall, and on the higher places, I even set the people after their families with their swords, their spears, and their bows. Nehemiah 4:13

Three things:
There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 1 Corinthians 15:41


And I know they are just different ways of saying exactly the same three things. That is why I can understand the sword that is not mentioned in this verse, because the stars were also not mentioned in this verse.

The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear. Habbakuk 3:11

In the verse one thing is missing from both sets of three. The sword, and the star.



That is why I can hear the sword in this verse, because the oil is also mentioned in the verse.

The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords. Psalm 55:21



And that is why I can hear something when Muhammad says crazy stuff like this:

Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The Parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a Lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the glass as it were a brilliant star: Lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it: Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light: Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things.


Crazy sounding verses are confirming the many sets of three things are all representing the same three things. Because they put things into places shared with its parallel from other sets of three things.

The words are put into alignment according to their positions within the three.

Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape
Moon - Star - Sun
Spear - Sword - Bow

So Muhammad is technically speaking of the Sword, when he is speaking the Olive, the Oil and the Star together.

As the sword is also an olive branch.

The bible mentions eating bread, and drinking wine. But it also mentions eating the flesh of men, and drinking their blood.
But did you know the bread is the flesh, and the wine is the blood?

Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh
- Bone - Blood
 

Dimi95

Active Member
What you are saying is not clear. You say the sword represents the word of God because it is a weapon against enemies, can cut through nearly anything, and is very dangerous.

So what do you think the other offensive weapons like the spears, and bows mentioned in the bible represent?



I know wine is one of three certain things. Just as the sword is one out of a different certain three things.
Just as the Moon, the Stars and the Sun are another different certain three things. Etc.

Three things:
And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart. Psalm 104:14

Three things:
Therefore set I in the lower places behind the wall, and on the higher places, I even set the people after their families with their swords, their spears, and their bows. Nehemiah 4:13

Three things:
There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 1 Corinthians 15:41


And I know they are just different ways of saying exactly the same three things. That is why I can understand the sword that is not mentioned in this verse, because the stars were also not mentioned in this verse.

The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear. Habbakuk 3:11

In the verse one thing is missing from both sets of three. The sword, and the star.



That is why I can hear the sword in this verse, because the oil is also mentioned in the verse.

The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords. Psalm 55:21



And that is why I can hear something when Muhammad says crazy stuff like this:

Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The Parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a Lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the glass as it were a brilliant star: Lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it: Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light: Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things.


Crazy sounding verses are confirming the many sets of three things are all representing the same three things. Because they put things into places shared with its parallel from other sets of three things.

The words are put into alignment according to their positions within the three.

Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape
Moon - Star - Sun
Spear - Sword - Bow

So Muhammad is technically speaking of the Sword, when he is speaking the Olive, the Oil and the Star together.

As the sword is also an olive branch.

The bible mentions eating bread, and drinking wine. But it also mentions eating the flesh of men, and drinking their blood.
But did you know the bread is the flesh, and the wine is the blood?

Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh
- Bone - Blood

Habakkuk is living in very difficult circumstances. God hasn't acted yet, and there is no sign that the fulfillment is just over the horizon. But he chooses to have joy because he knows God will act. This is an anticipative joy.

You put your standard for enemies..

Matthew 5:43-45:
"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy. ' But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven."

So if you follow then you follow:

Matthew 22:37:
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. ' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbour as yourself. ' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

So what weapon is for the enemies?

Are you sure that you want to go to the meaning of families?
Because that is tough topic to discuss..

Proverbs 28:26
"Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered"

Proverba 11:2
"When pride comes, then comes disgrace,but with humility comes wisdom."

Luke 22:17-38
"Then Jesus took a cup of wine. He gave thanks to God for it and said, “Take this cup and give it to everyone here. I will never drink wine again until God’s kingdom comes.” Then he took some bread and thanked God for it. He broke off some pieces, gave them to the apostles and said, “This bread is my body that I am giving for you. Eat this to remember me.” In the same way, after supper, Jesus took the cup of wine and said, “This wine represents the new agreement from God to his people. It will begin when my blood is poured out for you.” Jesus said, “But here on this table is the hand of the one who will hand me over to my enemies. The Son of Man will do what God has planned. But it will be very bad for the one who hands over the Son of Man to be killed.” Then the apostles asked each other, “Which one of us would do that?” Later, the apostles began to argue about which one of them was the most important. But Jesus said to them, “The kings of the world rule over their people, and those who have authority over others want to be called ‘the great providers for the people.’ But you must not be like that. The one with the most authority among you should act as if he is the least important. The one who leads should be like one who serves. Who is more important: the one serving or the one sitting at the table being served? Everyone thinks it’s the one being served, right? But I have been with you as the one who serves. “You men have stayed with me through many struggles. So I give you authority to rule with me in the kingdom the Father has given me. You will eat and drink at my table in that kingdom. You will sit on thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel. “Satan has asked to test you men like a farmer tests his wheat. O Simon, Simon, I have prayed that you will not lose your faith! Help your brothers be stronger when you come back to me.” But Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, I am ready to go to jail with you. I will even die with you!” But Jesus said, “Peter, before the rooster crows tomorrow morning, you will say you don’t know me. You will say this three times.” Then Jesus said to the apostles, “Remember when I sent you out without money, a bag, or sandals? Did you need anything?” The apostles said, “No.” Jesus said to them, “But now if you have money or a bag, carry that with you. If you don’t have a sword, sell your coat and buy one. The Scriptures say, ‘He was considered a criminal.’ This Scripture must happen. It was written about me, and it is happening now.” The followers said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” Jesus said to them, “That’s enough.”

I would like to see your comment on the previous bold , i am really intrested in seeing your answer.

You are telling me that Love is oil branch?

1 Corinthians 13:4-7
"Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance."

I don't know , is it bad to think like this?
 

WonderingWorrier

Active Member
Habakkuk is living in very difficult circumstances. God hasn't acted yet, and there is no sign that the fulfillment is just over the horizon.
They were fulfilled the moment they were spoken.

Just like the prophecy of Isaiah as an example. He said the Lion with the calf, the leopard with the kid goat, and the wolf with the lamb.

He is talking about the positioning of two sets of three.

Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf

Isaiah was telling a truth as it stood there and then. Not predicting a magical future event.

“That’s enough.”

I would like to see your comment on the previous bold , i am really intrested in seeing your answer.

To have peace, try to understand war.


You are telling me that Love is oil branch?
I had not thought of oil as being love.

I don't know , is it bad to think like this?
To think like what?
 

WonderingWorrier

Active Member
So what weapon is for the enemies?

Are you sure that you want to go to the meaning of families?
Because that is tough topic to discuss..
I could discuss it. The families are part of the same three things that Im talking about.

North - West - East
Spear - Sword - Bow

Here Judah has spear, and Benjamin has bow:
And Asa had an army of men that bare targets and spears, out of Judah three hundred thousand; and out of Benjamin, that bare shields and drew bows, two hundred and fourscore thousand: all these were mighty men of valour. 2 Chronicles 14:8

According to the gates of the city mentioned in Ezekiel Judah is a north gate, and benjamin in an east gate.

The weapons are assigned to families. That is why Ephraim is mentioned having bows, because Ephraim is of Joseph which is also an East gate.

That is also why Ephraim is associated with wine.

North - West - East
Bread - Oil - Wine
Spear - Sword - Bow
 

Dimi95

Active Member
They were fulfilled the moment they were spoken.

Just like the prophecy of Isaiah as an example. He said the Lion with the calf, the leopard with the kid goat, and the wolf with the lamb.

He is talking about the positioning of two sets of three.

Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf

Isaiah was telling a truth as it stood there and then. Not predicting a magical future event.



To have peace, try to understand war.



I had not thought of oil as being love.


To think like what?


Issiah 65:25
"Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days,or an old man who does not live out his years;the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child;the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.
They will build houses and dwell in them;they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit.No longer will they build houses and others live in them,or plant and others eat.For as the days of a tree,
so will be the days of my people;my chosen ones will long enjoy the work of their hands.They will not labor in vain,
nor will they bear children doomed to misfortune;for they will be a people blessed by the Lord,they and their descendants with them.Before they call I will answer;while they are still speaking I will hear.The wolf and the lamb will feed together,and the lion will eat straw like the ox,and dust will be the serpent’s food.They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,”


The sword of Christianity is love , whoever tells you differently , he is everything except Christian.

How can love be oil branch?
Love is pure and unique.

"The one who leads should be like the one who surves"

I just wanted to point out what i mean , i am very critical , most of the time on people who have the same belief as me.

If your own backyard is not clean , how can you say anything about your neighbours?
And when it's clean , still you don't say , you go and you help your neighbor.
That's how i live Christianity.

There is no salvation without manifest my friend , and whoever thinks otherwise,well Jesus said : "Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven..."

About families , it's very hard to say this but truth is painfull
You must renounce every power that has effect on you , and most important yourself , that is what Christ demands.

First, self-denial is not merely a periodic practice. We aren’t occasionally called to pick up a certain cross; we are called to an entire way of life. We often speak of whether we are willing to “count the cost” of discipleship. But the real issue is not the costliness of following Jesus—it’s our willingness to follow him regardless of the cost. The greatness or littleness of the cost is no longer emphasized; rather, all of life is to be surrendered to him.
We aren’t occasionally called to pick up a certain cross; we are called to an entire way of life.
Second, a right understanding of the self is necessary for discipleship. If self-denial and cross-bearing are actually calls to surrender the self, then the self must not only be present, but well-known and well-examined. How can we submit what we do not recognize? How can we surrender what we are unaware of? Spending time examining our hearts, studying our motives, desires, and sin, is not only permissible in discipleship, but necessary to it.
Third, all discipleship is extreme. The seemingly harsh language of Jesus’s call is intended to make this clear. There are no halfway measures in following Christ. It’s all or nothing. By definition, it’s not a hobby but total and complete allegiance to him in every corner of the heart.
Christ calls us to exclusive allegiance and complete submission to him. Although extreme and all-encompassing, self-denial and cross-bearing do not eradicate or repress the self. Rather, the Holy Spirit works through them, restoring the image of God in us as we grow in Christlikeness and become more fully who we were created to be.

You can't ignore the parabels..

And what i generally think of sin

James 1:14-15
"Each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death." Evil desires are not quite and not yet sins but they lead to sin.

You can see here that the focus is on our essence to sinning.

Jesus only consistent absolute was the goodness and reliability of God.
 
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WonderingWorrier

Active Member
The wolf and the lamb will feed together,and the lion will eat straw like the ox,and dust will be the serpent’s food.They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,”


The sword of Christianity is love , whoever tells you differently , he is everything except Christian.
I was thinking of this other one: "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them".

If the extra details of the prophecy that you are showing are in question then I can also include the straw and the dust and the serpent to further clarify what i am saying. It already happened the moment it was spoken.

The lion is with the cattle and with the straw. The dust is in a different place.

Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf
Straw - Dust - Stubble
Spear - Sword - Bow

To help understand straw and dust you can see in the word list the spear is as straw, and the sword is as dust.



The sword is as dust, and stubble is as bow:

Who raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings? he gave them as the dust to his sword, and as driven stubble to his bow. Isaiah 41:2

As stubble is also as wine
For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry. Nahum 1:10



This is what the sword is:
The sword(dust) is "the sword of Eden" mentioned in Genesis. And the serpent is in Eden, that is why it eats dust. Because that is where it is.
Eden is a wilderness, but it is also dust.

Desert - Wilderness - Mountain



How can love be oil branch?
Love is pure and unique.

So what about the bread and the wine, the low and the high?

Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape

About families , it's very hard to say this but truth is painfull
You must renounce every power that has effect on you , and most important yourself , that is what Christ demands.

I think I can understand this pain. Is it here: "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple".

Jesus teaches both peace and war, love and hate. It is not contradiction. You just cant understand one without also understanding the other.

"Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?" Lamentations.

Have to listen carefully.


And what i generally think of sin

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 1 John 3:4

Sin is the misunderstanding of the law. If the law is not being understood correctly then it is therefore being lawless.
 

WonderingWorrier

Active Member
If you have a point, then please just make it. Thanks.
You missed the point.
That was the point.
I agree. I share that same point too. But in a different way.
Are you familiar with the concept of speaking in parallels, to explain something in a different way but are connected in a way which makes a point?


Lets try this with some verses that I showed earlier. For arguments sake lets call one verse a good verse, and one verse an evil verse.
But there is another third verse that we will call a nonsense verse. It doesnt make any sense.


Here is the evil verse:
"Therefore set I in the lower places behind the wall, and on the higher places, I even set the people after their families with their swords, their spears, and their bows".

Here is the good verse:
"There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory".

Here is the nonsense verse:
"The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear".

Carefully study that one good verse, and also the one evil verse. Compare it to the nonsense verse.


Does the nonsense verse then make any sense to you?

Do you get the point of the nonsense?
 

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
You missed the point.
That was the point.



Lets try this with some verses that I showed earlier. For arguments sake lets call one verse a good verse, and one verse an evil verse.
But there is another third verse that we will call a nonsense verse. It doesnt make any sense.


Here is the evil verse:
"Therefore set I in the lower places behind the wall, and on the higher places, I even set the people after their families with their swords, their spears, and their bows".

Here is the good verse:
"There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory".

Here is the nonsense verse:
"The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear".

Carefully study that one good verse, and also the one evil verse. Compare it to the nonsense verse.


Does the nonsense verse then make any sense to you?

Do you get the point of the nonsense?

I see you're doing that weird word association thing again. I'll leave you to it.
 

Dimi95

Active Member
I was thinking of this other one: "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them".

If the extra details of the prophecy that you are showing are in question then I can also include the straw and the dust and the serpent to further clarify what i am saying. It already happened the moment it was spoken.

The lion is with the cattle and with the straw. The dust is in a different place.

Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf
Straw - Dust - Stubble
Spear - Sword - Bow

To help understand straw and dust you can see in the word list the spear is as straw, and the sword is as dust.



The sword is as dust, and stubble is as bow:

Who raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings? he gave them as the dust to his sword, and as driven stubble to his bow. Isaiah 41:2

As stubble is also as wine
For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry. Nahum 1:10



This is what the sword is:
The sword(dust) is "the sword of Eden" mentioned in Genesis. And the serpent is in Eden, that is why it eats dust. Because that is where it is.
Eden is a wilderness, but it is also dust.

Desert - Wilderness - Mountain


So what about the bread and the wine, the low and the high?

Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape



I think I can understand this pain. Is it here: "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple".

Jesus teaches both peace and war, love and hate. It is not contradiction. You just cant understand one without also understanding the other.

"Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?" Lamentations.

Have to listen carefully.




Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 1 John 3:4

Sin is the misunderstanding of the law. If the law is not being understood correctly then it is therefore being lawless.
I get your point from the beggining , but you don't understand what you are presenting is vague.

First , let's talk about dust.

Genesis 3:19
"By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground,since from it you were taken;for dust you are and to dust you will return.”

God draws the first prophetic relationship between ground and dust in Genesis 2:7 when he forms man from “the dust of the ground” and then strengthens this relationship in Genesis 3:19, “for dust you are and to dust you will return”. When we take into account the Biblical history of mankind as one people coming from Adam (āḏām), translatable as “ground” or “soil of the earth” (ăḏāmâ in Hebrew, אדמה), God paints an intriguing word picture. He uses the earthly elements, specifically dust, to express mankind as a vast whole across the ages. In Genesis 28:14, He broadens this relationship by likening Abraham’s promised descendants to the “dust of the earth” and the “sand of the seashore” (Genesis 22:17, 32:12, 41:49; 2 Chronicles 1:9).
It’s a no brainer that dust is from the ground, but the etymological choice here is intentional: Dust (as well as sand) is a vast collection of small, granular particles with no value or usefulness, whereas ground like soil, mud, and clay is clumpier, less discrete, and can be useful for planting crops and trees, making bricks and pottery, and so on. The functional difference between these kinds of earth is no secret, of course, and it carries over into prophetic etymology. Besides dust representing humanity across time, it also refers to futility, worthlessness, mortality, and death (Ecclesiastes 3:20, 12:7; Job 17:16, 21:26; Jeremiah 17:13; Daniel 12:2). For instance, when we see ancient pagan cultures like Nineveh repent, they do so in “dust” and sackcloth (Jonah 3:6), acknowledging that they will be reduced to dust, binding back the consequence of Genesis 3:19. We also see the Gentile prophet Job and his friends as well as kings, judges, prophets and commoners of Israel sit, sprinkle, roll, or cover themselves in dust (Joshua 7:6; 1 Samuel 4:12; 2 Samuel 15:32; Nehemiah 9:1; Job 2:12, 42:6).
“Therefore I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes.”
JOB 42:6
Covering dust over oneself is a public declaration that they are a dead man walking, so to speak, acknowledging their inability, mortality, shame, or worthlessness in the world as well as repenting and turning from their evil ways: sins, trespasses, iniquity, and all sorts of wrongdoing–the old self is dead, nothing but dust. Once the dust is washed off by water, a new man is restored out of the dust into a way of life, an outward expression of repentance reflecting an inward reality. This dust-to-dust understanding is both practical and prophetic (Job 34:15) and seems to also be why the apostles could use it as a sign of looming judgment (Luke 9:5, 10:11; Acts 13:51, 22:22-23; Revelation 18:19; Deuteronomy 28:24).
This adds further insight into the "Parable of the Wise and Foolish builders" when Jesus likens a person’s belief and behaviour to a man “who built his house on the sand”, He binds back the prophetic usage of sand or dust as mankind, meaning to build your life, belief, attitude, and behaviour on the “tradition of men [dust, sand]” is not only foolish but foundationless, so that during times of trouble or judgment, the house will fall. The house is not built to last because it is not built on the everlasting

If dust covers the meaningful spirit behind repentance, why repent in ashes, too?

Ashes :
To repent in ashes is a visual marker for a change of heart, as much as it about acknowledging God’s authority as Judge and what we deserve given our sin nature: destruction (cf. Daniel 9:3). But why would one repent in their destruction, then? Isn’t destruction something that happens to you? And isn’t repenting in dust the same thing, acknowledging our inevitable death, ‘for dust we are and to dust we will return’. It boils down to eschatological imagery.

To “repent in dust and ashes” means to fully humble yourself and surrender everything you are before God, to completely turn away from all evil-from beginning to end, from creation to destruction, from ancestors to descendants, from birth to death, from dust to ashes,I repent!

So repetence is the sword?

And about Isiah 66:25 , It shows us the complete restoration of peace on earth. No more sin, no more sorrow, no more futility, no more harming or destroying “on all my holy mountain.” This is what Easter inaugurated,the peaceable kingdom God intended when he decided to create the heavens and the earth.


".....he gave them as dust to his sword, and as driven stubble to his bow"

Weapons were not carnal, but spiritual, and mighty through God; his sword was the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; his bow and arrows were the Gospel, and the truths of it, in whose ministry Christ went forth conquering, and to conquer: and this being attended with the power of God, men could no more stand against them than dust and stubble before the wind.

Wine and bread i leave it for the end of discussion , may I? :)

Again you go to peace and war , and again i am saying to you.

"Blessed are the peacemakers"

John 14:27.
"Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you."

and again we go to the Mathhew 7:15-20
Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.You will know them by their fruits.Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

and

Lamentations 3:37-40
This verse tells us that apart from God, no one can determine whether something can be done. In our real life, we can experience that though we can make a plan for our everyday life, we cannot foresee what will happen in that day.

Lamentations 3:40
"Let us search and try our ways, and turn again to the LORD."
(The key verb in the second part of the verse is "turn again," "return," the Hebrew verb shûb, "to (re)turn.")

Who said anything about law and not following the law?

I will give you a tip :
Why love is pointed as the greatest commandment?
 

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Veteran Member
Premium Member
@stevecanuck, some languages like English like everything to be clear, concise, non-repetitive, and context plays little role in the clarity of the sentence. Arabic is not like that. Not only does the mini-context, but that qualifiers can be given in a bigger context. Repeated things also can be said given similarity to what is paraphrased about same subject. Qualifiers thus do not be repeated.

So this may be a language barrier thing.

I can explain more.
 

Dimi95

Active Member
@stevecanuck, some languages like English like everything to be clear, concise, non-repetitive, and context plays little role in the clarity of the sentence. Arabic is not like that. Not only does the mini-context, but that qualifiers can be given in a bigger context. Repeated things also can be said given similarity to what is paraphrased about same subject. Qualifiers thus do not be repeated.

So this may be a language barrier thing.

I can explain more.
I have a question

Why Elif is the first letter of الرَّحْمَٰنِ , as far as i know Elif can be used only in the middle and at the end of the word.
 

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I have a question

Why Elif is the first letter of الرَّحْمَٰنِ , as far as i know Elif can be used only in the middle and at the end of the word.
You been misinformed. It get's skipped alif and lam when preceded by a different word, but it's grammar is there to indicate "the" or "all" depending.
 

Dimi95

Active Member
You been misinformed. It get's skipped alif and lam when preceded by a different word, but it's grammar is there to indicate "the" or "all" depending.
Thank you for answering me

You helped me with something important.
 

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Veteran Member
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One more thing is this also developed by Al Khalil?
If there is a shada (the w looking thing) on a letter after alif lam, it get's skipped, otherwise, the connection is to the lam if preceded by a different word. If there is no word preceding, the alif makes a sound, but if there is a shada on the letter after lam, it skips the lam, otherwise, the lam gets included in the sound.
 

Dimi95

Active Member
If there is a shada (the w looking thing) on a letter after alif lam, it get's skipped, otherwise, the connection is to the lam if preceded by a different word. If there is no word preceding, the alif makes a sound, but if there is a shada on the letter after lam, it skips the lam, otherwise, the lam gets included in the sound.
I know this , but you didn't answer my question..
Is the grammar developed by Al Khalil?
 
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