Demons, is there any evidence they even exist?

[SkepticThinker]

No I put my faith in God. If he chooses to use men to heal I still give him the ultimate credit.
I'm living this, BTW, it's not theory.
Prayer works.
You want to attribute everything to chance...so be it.
And I have a very knowledgeable doctor who isn't afraid to admit that they don't understand everything.

You put your faith in your personal understanding of God, as viewed through your own lens.

I value controlled studies over anecdotes because it gets us closer to understanding reality. Prayer has never been shown to work at any rate greater than chance. Which is to say it doesn't work. You're the one banking on chance here, apparently.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

You put your faith in your personal understanding of God, as viewed through your own lens.

I value controlled studies over anecdotes because it gets us closer to understanding reality. Prayer has never been shown to work at any rate greater than chance. Which is to say it doesn't work. You're the one banking on chance here, apparently.

I can't speak for others, including former Christians, but I believe that praying to God was a complete waste of my time and energy. When I was a child and teenager, I would frantically pray to him, asking and pleading with him to protect me from being abused and bullied both at home and at school. But despite my sincere and desperate prayers to this "loving and merciful" God, I was severely abused and mistreated at home for thirteen and a half years and bullied and harassed at school for twelve years. I stopped praying for a while until I was in my early twenties and the PTSD began to set in, and like a naive fool, I began to pray to God again for help with dealing with the PTSD and comfort in my suffering. But again, all of my sincere prayers apparently fell on deaf ears of my supposedly "heavenly father," or else the so-called loving and merciful God was never present in my life because he doesn't exist.

I don't mind saying that being a devout Christian was very detrimental to my mental health and emotional well-being, and I will never be a Christian again because of everything negative I experienced during the thirty years I was one. I renounced my Christian faith and my belief in God two years ago, and since then, I've learned to stand on my own two feet and care for myself without relying on the biblical God or on my spiritual beliefs. I also realized that my beloved husband of thirty years has been the only caring and loving protector I've ever had in my life. He is the only person that I've ever known in my life who has ever unconditionally loved me, cared for me, provided for me, and protected me from harm. In fact, no one in my adopted family ever tried to protect me from being abused and neglected at home or bullied and harassed at school while I was growing up. Nobody in the rural town I grew up in—not my neighbors, teachers at school, the pastor and congregation of the church I attended, or anyone else—ever tried to protect me from being abused at home and bullied at school. My supposed loving and merciful "heavenly father" never lifted a finger to help or protect me during the years I lived in a living nightmare of constant abuse, bullying, and neglect. To be honest, I saved myself from the abuse and neglect when I stood up against my abusers shortly after I turned eighteen, and I've been standing up for myself ever since. The bullying and harassment at school stopped once I graduated.

If the biblical God really does exist, then he can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. He left me to suffer in an abusive home while growing up. Long story short, I don't need or want him in my life. I don't believe that he deserves my love, respect, or reverence, but I do believe that he has rightfully earned my contempt for him and my loathing of him. I've lived with PTSD and trauma as a result of that abuse all of my adult life. I lived in a living nightmare of abuse while growing up, but I saved myself shortly after I turned eighteen when I physically confronted my abusers and threatened to call the police on them if they ever laid another hand on me. Of course, the bullying and harassment at school stopped once I graduated from high school. I finally realized that I don't need God in my life to experience joy and peace, to be a good person and make moral decisions, or to help me if I need it, heal me if I'm sick, protect me from harm, or save me if my life is in danger. However, I know that I can completely rely on my husband to help me if I need it or if I'm sick, to protect me from harm, or to save my life, as he has done in the past. God, on the other hand, has demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt that I cannot trust and rely on him to help me. And, if he exists, he has proven to me beyond a doubt that he is about as loving and merciful as the deadly king cobra.

 

[Wildswanderer]

You put your faith in your personal understanding of God, as viewed through your own lens.

I value controlled studies over anecdotes because it gets us closer to understanding reality. Prayer has never been shown to work at any rate greater than chance. Which is to say it doesn't work. You're the one banking on chance here, apparently.

Which is exactly why I don't put faith in man's studies. Personal experience trumps manipulated data.
Everyone believes what they see first... don't kid yourself.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Which is exactly why I don't put faith in man's studies. Personal experience trumps manipulated data.
Everyone believes what they see first... don't kid yourself.

You don't seem to understand how scientific studies work, or that they are designed to remove human biases and outside variables so that they are objective as possible. Despite my pointing this out to you before.
You are perfectly happy relying solely on your personal psychological and mental biases that you don't even seem to be aware of the existence of in the first place.
Faith doesn't help us here. Faith gets us to a place where billions of people believe in thousands of different gods and they're all sure that they've got the right god(s), but not a single one can demonstrate it. Meanwhile, everything we actually know about the world around us, that we objectively and collectively know as a species about the earth and the universe, that all came from scientific study and investigation that you are so averse to. We didn't get there by believing things we read in ancient books. That kind of thinking has actually hindered our growth as a species.

 

[nPeace]

I have never seen demons. I don't know of any evidence that can be used to infer the existence of demons that isn't described by better, more rational explanations. Contemporary and historical claims of demons appear to be just that, claims and not evidence.

Anyone claiming that demons exist needs to tell me how they know this so that I can see the evidence that tells them it is demons too and not just wishful thinking and imagination.

We can measure gravity, and the distance between the sun and stars, we can infer dark matter and energy from the activity of indirect evidence, but nothing I know of provides proof of demons or provides inference that doesn't have a more rational explanation involving ordinary phenomena.

Ask Jesus. All Christians believe Jesus. After all, a Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ - his teachings, and example.

 

[Apostle John]

I’ve walked passed Satan in human form but getting doubters to believe me is naturally an uphill struggle. Not to worry.

Regardless, if natural evil and demons are not the cause of illness in this fallen world why don’t we humans live nearer to an average age of a thousand years instead of much younger?

 

[Wildswanderer]

You don't seem to understand how scientific studies work, or that they are designed to remove human biases and outside variables so that they are objective as possible. Despite my pointing this out to you before.
You are perfectly happy relying solely on your personal psychological and mental biases that you don't even seem to be aware of the existence of in the first place.
Faith doesn't help us here. Faith gets us to a place where billions of people believe in thousands of different gods and they're all sure that they've got the right god(s), but not a single one can demonstrate it. Meanwhile, everything we actually know about the world around us, that we objectively and collectively know as a species about the earth and the universe, that all came from scientific study and investigation that you are so averse to. We didn't get there by believing things we read in ancient books. That kind of thinking has actually hindered our growth as a species.

I'm not adverse to science. But if you think all studies are unbiased you are extremely gullible.
Science can't give us the final answers. That's why our secular society is so bad at handling suffering. If this life is all then the ultimate good is only to be comfortable and happy. That doesn't help us when life gets hard.
Yes, billions recognize that there's something higher to provide real hope.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I'm not adverse to science. But if you think all studies are unbiased you are extremely gullible.
Science can't give us the final answers. That's why our secular society is so bad at handling suffering. If this life is all then the ultimate good is only to be comfortable and happy. That doesn't help us when life gets hard.
Yes, billions recognize that there's something higher to provide real hope.

You are incredibly averse to science.

The rest of what you've said here ignores our entire previous conversation as though it never happened. Bizarre.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Ask Jesus. All Christians believe Jesus. After all, a Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ - his teachings, and example.

Perhaps you are right. I mean, it is my belief that God did bless me with an exceptionally healthy intellect, keen senses, and a love of His creation inspiring me to use science to better understand it. Perhaps you might benefit from asking as well. Your last post trying to equate natural phenomena to un-evidence claims was highly technically and logically flawed. I cannot imagine Jesus coming up with anything like that or coaching anyone to present it. I certainly hope you weren't suggesting that He would.

Of course, I was asking the people on here to show me the evidence they are using to support their claims so that I can see how they come to their conclusions. I cannot imagine that asking Jesus would result in some of the efforts I have seen.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I'm not adverse to science. But if you think all studies are unbiased you are extremely gullible.
Science can't give us the final answers. That's why our secular society is so bad at handling suffering. If this life is all then the ultimate good is only to be comfortable and happy. That doesn't help us when life gets hard.
Yes, billions recognize that there's something higher to provide real hope.

What is your personal experience in determining the quality of research? What metrics and reasoning do you consider in leveling your assessments? Do you consult those trained in the fields representing the research you are evaluating?

 

[Jainarayan]

If they’re anything like him, he can possess me!

Seriously (who’s kidding ), I believe there are “unsavory” beings but not the demons of Christianity. Christians, if you think about it, are the only religious group so obsessed with demons. I don’t believe these types of demons exist in Judaism or Islam. Hinduism and Buddhism have their evil beings but nothing like western demons.

Btw, the guy is CM Punk, the wrestler. I hear he’s a hell of a nice guy (see wut I did there?).

 

[nPeace]

Perhaps you are right. I mean, it is my belief that God did bless me with an exceptionally healthy intellect, keen senses, and a love of His creation inspiring me to use science to better understand it. Perhaps you might benefit from asking as well. Your last post trying to equate natural phenomena to un-evidence claims was highly technically and logically flawed. I cannot imagine Jesus coming up with anything like that or coaching anyone to present it. I certainly hope you weren't suggesting that He would.

I have to wonder what post you read.
Was it this... or something else?

Here are some pieces of evidence for Demons, which I accept.
1. Jesus said it. Yes. Jesus is more reliable than any scientist, on this matter. He identified their existence, and their activities.
2. The Bible said it. The Bible is more reliable than any scientist... on this matter. The Bible explains their origin, and activities.
3. The above two sources are verified by the activity we see present in the world, along with the Bible's trustworthy record.

Of course, I was asking the people on here to show me the evidence they are using to support their claims so that I can see how they come to their conclusions. I cannot imagine that asking Jesus would result in some of the efforts I have seen.

You don't like what Jesus said, as recorded in the Bible?
Doesn't what Jesus said, count as evidence? If not, why not.
Did Jesus lie? What reasons do you have for not believing Jesus?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Demons, is there any evidence they even exist?

If so what is the evidence?

I used to joke that my Conservative MP and MPP were my best chance of becoming a theist, since they were the best evidence I'd ever seen that the Devil exists.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I’ve walked passed Satan in human form

Was he called Lucifer Morningstar and was this at a club in LA called Lux? Perhaps in the company of "the detective" (pronounced in a delightful british accent)?

 

[Apostle John]

Was he called Lucifer Morningstar and was this at a club in LA called Lux? Perhaps in the company of "the detective" (pronounced in a delightful british accent)?

What percentage of the membership do you hold on here? You’ve been running this for 20 years and the count is only 40k and sited in America?You keep the membership topped up nicely on your uk one. Perhaps that topic is your number one love. I cannot find the poll results of the 2007 vote that made you president, had no interest at the time, wondered if you were up against Saville and whacky jacko.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

What percentage of the membership do you hold on here? You’ve been running this for 20 years and the count is only 40k and sited in America?You keep the membership topped up nicely on your uk one. Perhaps that topic is your number one love. I cannot find the poll results of the 2007 vote that made you president, had no interest at the time, wondered if you were up against Saville and whacky jacko.

What on earth are you talking about?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

What on earth are you talking about?

^ What he said.

What percentage of the membership do you hold on here? You’ve been running this for 20 years and the count is only 40k and sited in America?You keep the membership topped up nicely on your uk one. Perhaps that topic is your number one love. I cannot find the poll results of the 2007 vote that made you president, had no interest at the time, wondered if you were up against Saville and whacky jacko.

 

[Muffled]

The dilemma for a therapist treating a condition that is like yours is how a patient will blame an outside force, like a demon, and this is used as an excuse for the patient to avoid accountability. A therapist would work towards you realizing that it’s your beliefs and assumptions that lead you to the behavior that you claim is caused by a demon. In one approach the therapist might have the patient realize THEY are the demon against their better self. Why a person would sabotage their own wellbeing is the goal. Once a patient understands the sabotage is a decision they will be encouraged to find self-esteem and agency to make healthier decisions.

I wouldn't trust a therapist to know his *** from his elbow.

 

[Muffled]

My background is psychology. I was merely offering insight into what a therapist might say to a person that could be going through a situation similar to what the member said. Therapists will help people have a more realistic understanding of life and their problems.

I worked at a mental institution for a while and patients would drop by and chat. One definitely had a demon but I was too new a Christian to be of much help. She ended up kicking a nurse in the head and the court found her sane and sent her to prison.

 

[Soandso]

I worked at a mental institution for a while and patients would drop by and chat. One definitely had a demon but I was too new a Christian to be of much help. She ended up kicking a nurse in the head and the court found her sane and sent her to prison.

How does one tell the difference between demons and mental illness?