Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Yea. I can definitly see demons as metaphors. I have my own to fight as well.
Definitely nothing in terms of a real entity exists anywhere.
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Demons, is there any evidence they even exist?
- Thread starter danieldemol
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Definitely nothing in terms of a real entity exists anywhere.
How can one attribute something to a Demon if there is no way for one to even know whether or not they even exist?
We have no knowledge of demons we know nothing about them
So how on Earth can we attribute things to them? Especially considering they cannot be observed?
I don't see how one could see something and then seriously say a Demon did it with any credibility
Sounds very tenuous to me
Altfish
Veteran Member
Philip Pullman's Their Dark Material
PureX
Veteran Member
it's like discovering planets that we can't see. Or anything else we can't see. We look for the expected effects on what we can see. The key is knowing what effects to look for. And knowing how to determine that they can't be from something else.
The thing is, we know exoplanets are things that exist because they have been observed, if only indirectly
I don't think the situation with exoplanets is analogous to the situation with demons
I mean, we know planets orbit our star therefore it's not such a great leap to think they orbit other stars
However, the concept of demons is ignorant and antiquated
It is not at all like the concept of exoplanets
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe the evidence is the same as that for God. God says they exist.
PureX
Veteran Member
Sounds like you have made up your mind based on ... no evidence. That seems to be a common theme around here.
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Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe it isn't as clear cut as that. Attacks can come from people and people's spirits as well. I believe the concept of a demonic spirit would be that it is a fallen angel.
I used to believe in demons
It is because I eventually developed an open mind that I stopped doing so
And the burden of proof is on those who claim demons exist, it's not on those who don't
Show me actual evidence - not just testimony - and I will believe in them
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe that is a nomenclature problem. There is a concept of one's inner demons which is not another entity but is simply troubling thoughts. I believe some people think that the entities don't exist and all there is is troubling thoughts but that is an a priori position.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe truthful testimony is evidence.
PureX
Veteran Member
I have no reason to believe or to disbelieve. Believing is just me presuming that I'm right. And if presuming that isn't necessary, I'd rather remain undecided.
Are you sure?
Suppose I testify I saw Elvis alive. Would that be evidence that Elvis is alive?
Ciao
- viole
Are you sure?
Suppose I truthfully testify I saw Elvis alive. Would that count as evidence that Elvis is alive?
Ciao
- viole
PureX
Veteran Member
No, it would be evidence that Elvis did exist, and can still be seen in many forms.
Are you sure?
If I testified that I have been abducted by aliens, would that serve as evidence that aliens exist, or existed?
Ciao
- viole
Not an interesting question, to my mind. If the question is asked "does X exist" the answer is already yes by virtue of being able to ask the question. At minimum, there is existence-as-concept or idea, which in turn means the thing named can have an influence on oneself and one's life. So I never ask "does X exist" but instead I ask "how am I able to understand X" and "what relationship do I have with X." Those are far more interesting questions.
How am I able to understand demons? What relationship do I have with demons? And there can be multiple answers too, for those of us who enjoy seeing from different perspectives.
My own religious tradition doesn't really factor in the concept of demons, for the most part. I understand the phenomena often attributed to them through a different map of the territory, so to speak. Loosely, "demon" is just an attribution made to a spirit/person/aspect that you have an adversarial relationship with. So if you have an adversarial relationship with anything there's your "evidence" for demons.
How am I able to understand demons? What relationship do I have with demons? And there can be multiple answers too, for those of us who enjoy seeing from different perspectives.
My own religious tradition doesn't really factor in the concept of demons, for the most part. I understand the phenomena often attributed to them through a different map of the territory, so to speak. Loosely, "demon" is just an attribution made to a spirit/person/aspect that you have an adversarial relationship with. So if you have an adversarial relationship with anything there's your "evidence" for demons.
Demons to me are just metaphors for some of the things that we can't explain so easily, but where much can be explained once one delves into the processes within the mind and how these so often can go wrong. And these processes can no doubt be mistaken for 'demons', but it is hardly a useful concept when health and ridding oneself of any issues should be the first consideration rather than being condemned by others, especially by those of the religious variety. 
I always start by thinking 'what a crazy concept'. Then I read some paranormal cases like possession cases with paranormal events and conclude 'something akin to demons seems to exist'.
Usually, when some miraculous event happens, then it is because it is a statistical deviation from the norm. However, some theists like to see it as a miracle. Let's check the consequences of that.
For instance, if a kid gets leukemia, and 99,999 percent of all kids that get that form of leukemia die, then the 0.001 percent who survives, it is because of God helped them.
The consequence is, of course, that if we thank God for that 0,001 percent, then we should sort of frown on His letting the other 99,999 percent die horribly. For thanking Him, would be the equivalent of thanking an SS nazi officer saving a jewish kid from the oven, while letting all the others being burned in, which looks counterintuitive and irrational. For both, God and the SS officer, would have the power to save all of them. And they are therefore morally equivalent, when it comes to save folks.
The logical conclusions follows: such miracles can only be performed by an inherently evil being. If the being would be moral, there would be no need of miracles. That is just a logical conclusion from the premises.
In normal situations, if a human could save 99,999%, but he doesn't, because he only saves 0,001%, he would be considered a monster. An immoral criminal. Someone nobody would like to be associated with.
So, why shouldn't God be treated the same way?
That is just an emotionless logical consideration, under the obvious amount of respect that your beliefs deserve.
Ciao
- viole
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