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Demons, Exorcisms, and Dissociative Identity Disorder

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
A Protestant friend remarked to me the other day that he believed in demons and demon possession and that he found it disturbing that his church didn't seem to want to acknowledge the problem, that it seemed to be only the Catholics that were concerned about it.

It got me thinking. The phenomena we call possession is worldwide and cross cultural. Of course, the story can vary as to what is possessing you, whether it is animal spirits or demons or your ancestors... and it varies how to get rid of it. But it is certainly remarkable how universal the experience is. No one can say, "Oh, only Pentecostals get demon possessed, it's obviously due to their religious suggestibility."

Sure we usually think of the Quintessiential Catholic Exorcist, and it's true that the Catholic church has very develooped procedures for distinguishing the difference between demon possession and mental illness and how to cast out said demons. But they most assuredly don't have a corner on the market.

At one time, belief in demons was nearly universal in Judaism, but nowadays its limited to certain groups who are into Kabbalah. But it's still out there. A cursory exploration of the internet (meaning I visited wikipedia LOL) taught me that exorcisms of some sort are practiced in Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Taosim.

Interestingly, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual Version 5 (DSM V) used by psychotherapists lists possession as a form of Dissociative Identity Disorder (What used to be called Multiple Personalities). I'm sure that our atheist friends out there seize on this to say that science embraces the fact that "demon possession" is simply a mental illness, that no demons actually exist. But in fact, most of the mental health experts I've heard address this issue take an agnostic position. It is irrelevant whether demons actually exist or not, just as it is irrelevant whether two actual persons reside within one body. All that matters is how best to help the client be relieved of suffering and function better. In fact, some would argue that if exorcism works, it may not be a bad thing.

In my own direct experience, the closest I ever came to any of this was watching a film of an actual exorcism (The Devil and Father Amorth) which I have to tell you was disturbing to me. I'm a sensitive person by nature and any show of someone suffering is going to make me hurt for them. Also the creepy two voices at once thing and violence was definitely scary. I'm not sure that it convinced me that demons are real. But definitely it helped this woman to go through an exorcism. If you watch the film, it's real life, not Hollywood -- real exorcisms can happen over long periods of time, sometimes years, which was a surprise for me. No levitations or heads spining around. Sorry you'll have to go to fiction for those kind of special effects.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
I will start somewhere else. Take a group of heterosexual men with regular partnerships. Tell them you are doing a longitude study of sperm quantity. Now you do something not "nice". Half of them get questions about fidelity in their partner and thereby they start questioning if their partner is faithful. And now watch - the quantity of sperm produced by them rises. The mind can influence the body.
So even within naturalism is not that simple. So yes, exorcism might work over time, because the brain in the subject of it might change to the better. The problem is what is the control mechanism for how it works.
 

GoodbyeDave

Well-Known Member
As ever, it's six of one and half as dozen of the other. Many people who were said to be possessed obviously had mental illnesses, but that doesn't mean that some who appear to have mental illnesses are not possessed. There is no reason why a being without a body should be virtuous or well-disposed towards humans; you can only rule out possession if you are an atheist.

A good example is SUNDS:
Sudden Unexpected Nocturnal Death Syndrome - SUNDS, body, life, beliefs, cause
The academic response was in terms of untestable psychophysical hypotheses; the Hmong explanation in terms of a demon is much simpler. It is also consistent with the fact that access to a Hmong priest can avert the problem and that Hmong who converted to Protestant Christianity were more affected.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Interestingly, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual Version 5 (DSM V) used by psychotherapists lists possession as a form of Dissociative Identity Disorder (What used to be called Multiple Personalities). I'm sure that our atheist friends out there seize on this to say that science embraces the fact that "demon possession" is simply a mental illness, that no demons actually exist. But in fact, most of the mental health experts I've heard address this issue take an agnostic position.

There's good reason for that, and I was reading an article about this recently. Mystical experiences are part of many cultural traditions. Sometimes these are contextualized with a religion, sometimes they aren't. A good mental health practitioner maintains religious and cultural neutrality on these matters and instead approaches the client from what is normal and accepted for their culture. Abnormal psychology is contextual - that is, something is abnormal because it is not normal in a particular cultural context. Care must be taken especially when working with cultural minority groups to not mistake well-accepted mystical experiences as indicators of personality disorders or other abnormal conditions. That said, a person can be having culturally appropriate mystical experiences and also be suffering from a mental illness. This bit here...

It is irrelevant whether demons actually exist or not, just as it is irrelevant whether two actual persons reside within one body. All that matters is how best to help the client be relieved of suffering and function better. In fact, some would argue that if exorcism works, it may not be a bad thing.

... is especially important. If the person does have an entangled mess of culturally appropriate mystical experiences while also suffering from a mental illness, solutions grounded in their culture are wise to deploy. Exorcisms are one example of this, but for other cultures the solutions might look different. For example, some folks in the occult community become concerned about others using spells to magically attack them. Instead of clinician dismissing it as psychosis, it'd be wise to instead suggest counterspells while discussing the reasons behind their fears in a culturally sensitive fashion. The idea is to help the client, not belittle their culture or dismiss their experiences.
 
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