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Democracy is in trouble in America

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
This is why:

Despite no evidence of widespread fraud or irregularities impacting the 2020 election, nearly three-quarters of Republicans claim they still have doubts about the legitimacy of President Joe Biden’s win over former President Donald Trump, according to a poll released this week by the University of Massachusetts at Amherst.

The survey of 1,036 Americans showed 71% of Republicans say they don’t buy Biden’s victory, with the majority basing their opinions on bogus claims — including that votes from fraudulent ballots, non-citizens or dead people helped Biden win several states. Only 21% of Republicans said Biden is the rightful president, compared to 91% of Democrats. Bipartisan local, state and federal officials including town clerks, judges and secretaries of state — along with Trump’s own Attorney General and Department of Homeland Security leaders — say that no fraud or irregularities impacted the 2020 race.


If people don't believe in election results, democracy is in some jeopardy. What happens if Trump runs and loses again and denies again that he lost? Just as bad, what if he wins? Will he violate his oath to defend the constitution again? I remember the Ukraine scandal where it was more obvious that Trump did something that he should be removed from office than when Nixon resigned in 1974 for Watergate scandal. Despite this in his impeachment trial only one republican voted to convict him. This was because Trump was still very popular among Republican voters. His opinion poll numbers stayed the same as before. Nixon by contrast was not popular with Republican voters.

There is a problem today with social media and the way news organizations, some of them, give us a false picture of what is actually going on. That's a big part of the problem, the biggest. That didn't exist in 1974.

In a world with different realities being presented at the same time, how can we unite?
 

We Never Know

No Slack
This is why:

Despite no evidence of widespread fraud or irregularities impacting the 2020 election, nearly three-quarters of Republicans claim they still have doubts about the legitimacy of President Joe Biden’s win over former President Donald Trump, according to a poll released this week by the University of Massachusetts at Amherst.

The survey of 1,036 Americans showed 71% of Republicans say they don’t buy Biden’s victory, with the majority basing their opinions on bogus claims — including that votes from fraudulent ballots, non-citizens or dead people helped Biden win several states. Only 21% of Republicans said Biden is the rightful president, compared to 91% of Democrats. Bipartisan local, state and federal officials including town clerks, judges and secretaries of state — along with Trump’s own Attorney General and Department of Homeland Security leaders — say that no fraud or irregularities impacted the 2020 race.


If people don't believe in election results, democracy is in some jeopardy. What happens if Trump runs and loses again and denies again that he lost? Just as bad, what if he wins? Will he violate his oath to defend the constitution again? I remember the Ukraine scandal where it was more obvious that Trump did something that he should be removed from office than when Nixon resigned in 1974 for Watergate scandal. Despite this in his impeachment trial only one republican voted to convict him. This was because Trump was still very popular among Republican voters. His opinion poll numbers stayed the same as before. Nixon by contrast was not popular with Republican voters.

There is a problem today with social media and the way news organizations, some of them, give us a false picture of what is actually going on. That's a big part of the problem, the biggest. That didn't exist in 1974.

In a world with different realities being presented at the same time, how can we unite?

I don't make a claim either way but an extra 26+ million votes did come in 2020 compared to 2004 -2016. And that many more votes will make some wonder.

2004- 121 million votes
2008- 129 million votes
2012- 126 million votes
2016- 128 million votes
2020- 155 million votes.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Democracy has been pretty much dead in the US for decades.

Also, why does it seem like everyone has forgotten Bush stealing the 2000 election? :rolleyes:
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't make a claim either way but an extra 26+ million votes did come in 2020 compared to 2004 -2016. And that many more votes will make some wonder.

2004- 121 million votes
2008- 129 million votes
2012- 126 million votes
2016- 128 million votes
2020- 155 million votes.
Tbf, that was likely due to a lot of people just wanting to vote out Trump. Regardless of the opponent. Like I mean no offence to any Trump supporter here but the phenomenon was so prolific it was even on our news a few times.
It was…interesting to watch
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Tbf, that was likely due to a lot of people just wanting to vote out Trump. Regardless of the opponent. Like I mean no offence to any Trump supporter here but the phenomenon was so prolific it was even on our news a few times.
It was…interesting to watch

I don't know how or why but over 18% increase will draw questions.
 
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Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Wow did he really?
That was because of your Electoral College system, right?
It was a huge controversy that went on for months. The Supreme Court eventually had to decide it.

"The returns showed that Bush had won Florida by such a close margin that state law required a recount. A month-long series of legal battles led to the highly controversial 5–4 Supreme Court decision Bush v. Gore, which ended the recount. The recount having been ended, Bush won Florida by 537 votes, a margin of 0.009%."
2000 United States presidential election - Wikipedia

Ironically, it was a very acceptable mainstream opinion that Bush stole the election and that Gore actually won. But now people act like the sky is falling when people question or don't accept the results of the 2020 election. There's a real double standard going on.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't know how or why but an 18% increase will draw questions.
Well you have to remember not everyone votes in the US to begin with. Which explains why some might have signed up recently just to vote No Trump (again no offence to any Trump supporter. That’s just what I saw happening.)

I live in a country where you at least have to show up to the ballot box by law. You can put in a blank sheet of paper instead of voting if that’s your wish. So the spike in votes confused me at first. Then I was like, oh yeah you have to jump through hoops to vote in the US. We just show up to avoid a fine and get a free bbq lol
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Also, yes, I do believe that Bush cheated in the 2000 election. There was a huge of amount of corruption, especially regarding Florida.
You know for a country that loves to scream “freedom” you guys seem to have a lot of cheating in your Presidential elections
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
I don't make a claim either way but an extra 26+ million votes did come in 2020 compared to 2004 -2016. And that many more votes will make some wonder.

2004- 121 million votes
2008- 129 million votes
2012- 126 million votes
2016- 128 million votes
2020- 155 million votes.
Perhaps. But I think that is a small part of the reason they believe that.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
You know for a country that loves to scream “freedom” you guys seem to have a lot of cheating in your Presidential elections

I don't know about your country but here in the US you are free to...
Fish as long as you buy a license
-certain fish cost you an extra tag
Hunt as long as you buy a license
-certain game cost you an extra tag
Drive as long as you pay license fees
-and extra fees to license your vehicle
Own land as long as you pay yearly taxes
Own vehicles as long as you pay yearly taxes
Own equipment as long as you pay yearly taxes
Swim in the river as long as you pay a parking fee
Camp at the river as long as you pay a camping fee
Etc, etc, etc.

We are free to do many many things as long as we pay the fees lol
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
It was a huge controversy that went on for months. The Supreme Court eventually had to decide it.

"The returns showed that Bush had won Florida by such a close margin that state law required a recount. A month-long series of legal battles led to the highly controversial 5–4 Supreme Court decision Bush v. Gore, which ended the recount. The recount having been ended, Bush won Florida by 537 votes, a margin of 0.009%."
2000 United States presidential election - Wikipedia

Ironically, it was a very acceptable mainstream opinion that Bush stole the election and that Gore actually won. But now people act like the sky is falling when people question or don't accept the results of the 2020 election. There's a real double standard going on.
Bush didn't lie that he won the election when he didn't.
 
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SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't know about your country but here in the US you are free to...
Fish as long as you buy a license
-certain fish cost you an extra tag
Hunt as long as you buy a license
-certain game cost you an extra tag
Drive as long as you pay license fees
-and extra fees to license your vehicle
Own land as long as you pay yearly taxes
Own vehicles as long as you pay yearly taxes
Own equipment as long as you pay yearly taxes
Swim in the river as long as you pay a parking fee
Camp at the river as long as you pay a camping fee
Etc, etc, etc.

We are free to do many many things as long as we pay the fees lol
So like every country on earth lol
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
It was an error in my post. I meant to say "Bush didn't lie that he won the election when he didn't". I went back and edited it too late.
I'm fairly certain that Bush always believed he won, regardless of any evidence otherwise. It was a while ago, so I can't remember their exact reactions off the top of my head.

Anyway, major elections and campaigns are filled with corruption and lies and have been for years. None of it is real or upfront. It's all just theater at the end of the day.
 
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