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Featured Deliverance minstries

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Riders, Jun 7, 2022.

  1. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    Basically, churches who have these ministries believe devils and demons are after Christians and many of us are possessed, so they pray over you at church and cast out the demons. They did this quite often at my old Pentecostal church, I saw many folks who claimed to have demons and got prayed over.

    So what do Christians have to say about that? Many churches that practice it are either Pentecostal or Charismatic non-denominational churches. Do you believe in it?
     
  2. paradox

    paradox (㇏(•̀ᵥᵥ•́)ノ)

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    It doesn't matter who drives out demons as long as they cast them out in the name of Jesus.
    Mark 9:38–40

    Therefore if those exorcists don't say bad word of Jesus later or at some other point they're likely not fake.
     
  3. Semmelweis Reflex

    Semmelweis Reflex Antivaxxer

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    No. I don't believe it. Do you think it's a racket or a drama pageantry or do you think they're just nuts? All of the above would be my guess.
     
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  4. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    I think some of it is psychological yes.
     
  5. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it's in the Bible.
     
  6. Semmelweis Reflex

    Semmelweis Reflex Antivaxxer

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    Yes. That's true. But it is also in the Bible that those things would end. They ended with the death of the apostles. They were no longer necessary. So, when you see people doing that there is two things you can be sure of. 1. They don't know or care about the Bible. Most likely they care about money and attention. 2. They're lying. Now do a quick exercise and just think about the most notable people in the public eye who do those sorts of things.
     
  7. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    What verse do you mean? I think I have an idea but I'd like to see which you mean.
    I have to disagree. It's a sign of true believers according to Mark 16:17. We're basically commanded to cast out demons. Jesus did it every where he went.
    There is more demonic activity now than there was then; in my opinion. So it couldn't be more needed than now.
    It is true that some people fake such things for attention and money. But that doesn't mean it's all fake. Some of it is quite real.
     
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  8. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Where in the Bible does it say anything about the gifts of the Spirit ending with the apostles and more specifically where does it say that the authority of the name of Jesus would end with the death of the apostles?
     
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  9. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    No. It just creates a frenzied psychological state in people that from time to time creates a harmful and sometimes dangerous precedent into fanaticism.

    I think of Anneliese Michel as being a good example of that. .
     
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  10. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    Humans live constantly and our heavenly water oxygen microbe mass changes constantly too. To good supportive bio conditions or against us.

    Those natural conditions changes thoughts and behaviours. Chemistry in bio body.

    All human's born conscious are innate healers. Natural humans use of our mind.

    Psychic.

    So a human who is healthier and of a stronger biology can by scientific evidence affect the life mind and body of another human.

    In healing we learn to peacefully meditate and use that stance of mutual interactive human life contact review.

    And it can change the vibrational model of mental stress and chemical biology of another human. Proven already.

    And it's instant. So yes it's real but the identity claiming demons is falsification. As heated water and loss of oxygen by burning gas was a sciences evil cause. The gas nothing to do with us.

    Why we are sick unhealthy own incorrect brain function.

    Part of the lie of satanic sciences.

    We should all be mindful and healthy is correct human advice. Then we don't need to seek consolation or medical as we should live naturally. We should all be mutually healthy.

    Church by building structure only once resonated waters vibration by music. Making it holier. Humans would bathe in it. Be herbal body oiled. Wearing white robes would lay in church healing by resonations.

    Was humans healing by being evil gas spirit attacked. Which heats holy water removed life blood cell chemistry of oxygen. Oxygenation is important.

    Today most of us suffer mental and emotional chemical disturbance. Singing rectified a lot of those feelings by resonations also. In group singing using music better.

    Why family felt renewed going to meetings.

    Therefore yes humans can bodily affect change upon another humans biology.
     
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  11. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Deliverance ministry teaching is simply about placing the blame for sin on demons rather than on the person who chooses to sin. Kind of hard to authentically repent if you say that you are not responsible.

    When I was younger, I had a friend whose church got infected with Deliverance Ministry stuff. When she tried to argue against it, she was told she had demons. When she left, the last thing they said to her was that she had the "Demon of Leaving." So sad that people believe this sort of stuff.
     
  12. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Not all demons cause sin at all. Some are demons of infirmity, illness or mental illness.
    I agree that sounds ridiculous. A demon of leaving. :rolleyes: Seems like they made that one up on the spot.
     
  13. Sheldon

    Sheldon Veteran Member

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    Yeah, all of the above. Anyone having doubts - demons, anyone does something classed as sin - demons, anyone thinking of leaving the church - demons, anyone doesn't conform to the bleating sheeple - damsons. It's a one size fits all excuse, a fake imaginary panacea for all their perceived problems. If they aren't charging for the service, you can bet they're getting remuneration in some other way. I bet the collection plates are crammed after an exorcism, I bet they put on a hell of a show. I bet the best ones are when they have someone suffering from genuine mental health issues and psychotic episodes, they must really look spectacular.
     
  14. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Illnesses are not caused by demons. They are caused by natural things like germs, or chemical imbalances in the brain, or trauma.
     
  15. paradox

    paradox (㇏(•̀ᵥᵥ•́)ノ)

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    I always wondered how you Jews drive out demons?
    Scriptures imply that it was nothing new for Jews that Jesus drove out demons, ie. such that they never saw such a thing.
     
  16. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    The " nones" also don't have demons, I appreciate, is it only the Pauline-Christianity people here who acknowledge having it, please? Right?

    Regards
     
  17. Semmelweis Reflex

    Semmelweis Reflex Antivaxxer

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    1 Corinthians 13:8-10

    Mark 16:9-20 are spurious. They don't appear in earlier manuscripts. They were added on later.

    I don't think you understand. The sort of activity we are talking about, healing, speaking in tongues, prophecy, casting out demons, were done for signs as evidence of God's approval of the Christian congregations. That isn't any longer necessary. The people that Jesus and his apostles healed or cast demons out of are dead. There was no lasting effect there other than to establish the Christian congregation.

    It may be real, but it would be better if it were fake because if it were real it would be demonic. But demons don't have to be so obviously inflicting individuals. That would be a waste of time. Demons currently operate in a far more subtle way.
     
  18. Semmelweis Reflex

    Semmelweis Reflex Antivaxxer

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    1 Corinthians 13:8–10, but I didn't say anything about the authority of the name of Jesus.
     
  19. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    That which is perfect does not fully come until the resurrection and return of Christ. Until then you're striving for perfection. Until then you're being perfected. Until then you see as in a mirror dimly and don't see perfectly. But the gifts of the Spirit are for right now. Prophecy, tongues and interpretation and all the rest are for today.
    Just because they don't appear in some early manuscripts doesn't mean they aren't genuine. Those manuscripts were often rejected for a good reason. If you have read the writings of Ignatius then you'll know that even in his time he argued with people who had versions of scriptures that had things taken out of them.

    In my opinion it's easy for people to take things out than add them in. To add something in you have to really be committing fraud. But it's more justifiable for people to just take things out they don't really like.

    I stick to the textus receptus rather than just finding the earliest possible manuscript. Because these were the most trusted versions and that's why they were most copied and most relied on in the past.

    So unless you can find the originals themselves; then that would be something.
    I understand well enough. I know people who have had miracles. I have had miracles. I don't believe God ever stops doing miracles.

    There is no way you can convince me that demons have just stopped all their activity because they were just possessing people to help the Christian congregation get established. Satan isn't really interested in helping the church. I think he's the enemy of God.

    As the end of the age comes closer then demonic activity will increase not decrease. People will be plagued with more and more demons. Because as the scripture says satan has come down to you having great wrath because he knows he has but a short time. And it also says that men's hearts will fail them for fear from looking on all the things coming on the earth. That is increased paranormal activity. We shouldn't fear them but they're coming.

    We know according to Jude that some fallen angels are waiting in chains to be unleashed because of the judgment of God. Also we see the same thing in the book of Revelation. 3 angels unleashed from the Euphrates with armies of demons. And of course Appollyon and his army of demons.

    Mystery Babylon herself is said to draw all kinds of evil spirits to her.
    Don't you see that they said the same thing about Jesus? "By the prince of devils you cast out devils" is what they said about him. So I think it's wrong to say such things. Jesus said it was proof the kingdom of God came near to them.

    Some of these people casting out demons are legit and some aren't. It's not our place to judge; except by their fruits you'll know them; not by their casting out demons.

    Because some people cast out demons who Jesus says he doesn't know (matthew 7:22) and some people really cast out demons that Jesus does know.

    What does Jesus say about people who do such things in his name but don't walk with him?
    Forbid him not ... (Mark 9:39)
     
  20. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Demonology was more common back in history than it is today.

    Even among Jews I've known who believe in demons, I've never met one that would say that illnesses are caused by demons.
     
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