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define soul

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by bunny1ohio, May 19, 2006.

  1. c0da

    c0da Active Member

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    Out of all the definitions put forward so far, Opethian's has been the closest to how I view the soul.

    I don't think it exists.
     
  2. e1337hax0r111

    e1337hax0r111 New Member

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    wut defien soul power make sme think of theat song you knew soul power you gotta have it soul power!!! anuway you want it soul power!!11 you know you want it!11 heck my definition of soul has gotsto be that song you knew its a 1337 defnition ppl
     
  3. bunny1ohio

    bunny1ohio Active Member

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    ermmm... okayyy... one more time in English please :D
     
  4. bunny1ohio

    bunny1ohio Active Member

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    Why don't you... please I love everyone's opinions in here... there has to be a reason you don't believe it exists... why is that? :)
     
  5. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    Soul​

    Definition: In the Bible, "soul" is translated from the Hebrew ne´phesh and the Greek psy·khe´. Bible usage shows the soul to be a person or an animal or the life that a person or an animal enjoys. To many persons, however, "soul" means the immaterial or spirit part of a human being that survives the death of the physical body. Others understand it to be the principle of life. But these latter views are not Bible teachings. that is how i understand the soul to be
     
  6. bunny1ohio

    bunny1ohio Active Member

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    I know I told someone earlier not to give me definition, but to give me what they think... what do you think a soul is... myth? Why?.... reality?... then what is it? How do YOU define it? :p
     
  7. Opethian

    Opethian Active Member

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    I think this higher form of information processing evolved to allow the the organism, in this case, primitive humans, a way of being able to react to a much more variable range of situations, since it is such a flexible way of information processing. Our higher intelligence made us subject to a whole range of new situations, and evolved to adapt to these broader range of situations. Well at least that's what I think, just like everything else I'm going to state here :) .

    Until the day that just a single scientific experiment proves, or even just gives some evidence that "ghosts" are something other than people's hallucinations, rare natural phenomena, etc..., I see no need to take them into consideration.

    There, you yourself proposed a rare (very rare!) natural phenomenon to explain "ghosts".

    There's other ways to get OOB's, like certain hallucogenic plants :p. I believe it to be a way of moving through the information stored in your subconsciousness, and more proof for the hypothesis that there's nothing to us but our bodies, than for the other way around.

    It's just the state of our body (chemical, energy, polarisation etc...) that has to meet certain requirements to be functional. Why the need to call this a life force or animation? Why the need for abstract off-schale namings for processes that can be explained without being abstract?

    Nothing. :p
    That force you're talking about is just a state of the chemicals, energy and polarisation inside our body.
    I'd say it's just a state of the body, and thus inherent to it.
    No, they're just a proof that things can go wrong with the state of our body.
    Because of a different state of polarisation of certain types of cells.
     
  8. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    My Soul is the eternal "Me", which will one day be at one with God. This body/shell I am using now is just like an interface to use while I am going through this life on Earth.[​IMG]
     
  9. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    The body and the spirit combined define the soul. In other words, a body infused with a spirit (which is eternal and can exist outside of a body) is a soul. In Genesis 1:7, we read: "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." The spirit is the "breath of life" that God breathed (symbolically) into Adam's body. When He did so, Adam became "a living soul."

    Actually, most religions would disagree with a lot of my beliefs, which is neither here nor there. But most (not all) Christians believe in a literal, physical resurrection -- that is, the reuniting of body and spirit (or, as many might say, soul). If you will read my last post again, I never said anything about a decomposed body. As odd as it might seem to an unbeliever, those of us who do believe are convinced that our old (decomposed) bodies will be renewed and made perfect.

    Yes, essentially. But when you say that most religions believe in eternal life sans the body, I'm not sure why you think that. Most non-Christian religions would probably believe that, but most Christian religions believe in a resurrection, and the word resurrection means bringing back to life. If the spirit (my term) or the soul (your term) is itself eternal, and never dies, what is there to be resurrected except for the body?
     
  10. c0da

    c0da Active Member

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    Was in a rush, on my way out when I posted that! :D

    It's hard to explain but I'll try and elaborate now, although Opethian has already explained a lot of what I think.

    I don't think there is a soul. My beliefs are, more or less, in step with the idea of the five aggregates as put forward in Buddhism, these being the body, feelings, our perception, our will and our states of minds, or consciousnesses.

    I must rush off again sorry, I will go into more depth later!

    Bye all!
     
  11. bunny1ohio

    bunny1ohio Active Member

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    So would you say you are a naturalist or an evolutionist?

    They have been researching the physical effects of such things for decades... just most people are so determined to believe it is all bunk that they refute any evidence presented to them.

    Of course I did... I never said I believe that a ghost is someone's soul... only that it is a possibility... just as the time/space theory... I don't discount any options until one is proven to be factual... But I don't discount the possibility that a soul could exist.

    The type of OOB I am speaking of is controlled... it is dealing with situations people know nothing about... they are given a name... then they seek... and are damned accurate... but that may be all the information that is given to them is a name... subconscious doesn't explain the appearance of instant knowledge with no background information being introduced to the person doing the seeking.

    Agreed it is a state of being... but how does it come to be in that state "alive" to begin with? What creates that "force" or "energy" in our bodies to begin with? It is much more than just a chemical process... it is far to complex for us to ever define at our current stage of knowledge... so abstract is the only way to speak of it... because you are over specifying it and not answering the question... what is that "spark" that causes life... and where does it go when the body dies? Because it is proven scientifically that evergy is never destroyed... simply converted to other forms of energy... so where does the energy go?

    Caused by what?.... the lack of that energy triggers a new state.... so long as that evergy is present the body is alive and typically does not just begin to decompose.
     
  12. bunny1ohio

    bunny1ohio Active Member

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    We interpret this to mean different things then... you believe the literal translation that without the body the soul is nothing more than a "spirit"... I believe the soul is the maturation process of that spirit until it is ready to move on to the next plane of its existence...It uses the body as a vessel by which to "live". That the soul is eternal and the soul is what gives that spark of life to that dead piece of clay... the body is temporary "ashes to ashes dust to dust" but the "spirit" or soul is enternal and cannot die.

    Death is a mortal state that comes with the temporary bodies we are given if you follow christian teachings... the literal physical resurrection most believe to only pertain to Christ... not all of mankind... they teach that the body dies but the soul lives on in heaven for eternity... they distinguish the two as seperate.

    The resurrection of Christ... not all men. I used to be a baptist... I was christian at some point, so I understand the material and it does not promise that our bodies will continue... it even says that the body is only a vessel

    I Thessalonians 5:23Sanctify you, spirit, soul and body ... three seperate entities
     
  13. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Obviously, I can't speak for all Christians, but I can guarantee you that a great many Christians believe in the physical resurrection of all mankind. But since this is your thread, and I don't want to hijack it, I guess this is a topic we'll have to discuss at some other time.
     
  14. bunny1ohio

    bunny1ohio Active Member

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    I never said a lot of them didn't.... just the way I was taught was that the body is only a vessel for the soul... Although I don't actually believe it I want to know others' takes on it is all :D

    Basically I was just clarifying how you defined a soul.... so many people have so many different opinions on the topic it's just intersting to hear all the different views and how they support them :cool:
     
  15. Opethian

    Opethian Active Member

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    I don't like definitions. I'm just me and I think what I think.

    Well if you know of any evidence, please let me know.

    I do discount that possibility, because it is just waaaaaay to small.

    The subconscious can be a very powerful tool to people who know how to access and control it. People may not know anything consciously about the situations you are talking about, but the subconsciousness is a totally different aspect.

    Why is it more than just a chemical process?

    Why is it too complex to be defined?

    There is no "spark", just thermodynamics and biochemistry.

    Heat.

    The polarisation of nerve cells is necessary to give impulses through the body. If there is no polarisation, you can't send impulses, your cells can't maintain their equilibria, and bad stuff starts to happen.
     
  16. bunny1ohio

    bunny1ohio Active Member

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    Me either and me too :D

    There is plenty of evidence out there if you just look. But no matter how much evidence I present, it's much like religion in that it depends on how much of it you are willing to accept as truth.

    Why is it such a small possibility and according to whom?

    No it's really not. If I put you in a room with no windows a single door a pencil and sheets of paper... sat you at a table and told you the person we are looking for is Sarah Michelle Gellar... would your "subconcious" allow you draw a sketch of her exact location at that time?... Not unless you knew something about who she was to begin with, let alone not knowing the situation she could/should be in where she might have been last etc etc... they (and their subconscious minds) no nothing about the objects or people they are seeking... if this is strictly subconscious information then how does it happen? If you are wrong... then how else could you explain it?

    Because as far as we have been able to find out scientifically, there is no explanation as of today as to exactly where that beginning spark of "life" comes from or how... and so far as we have been able to prove without doubt is that this is the only place it exists. We are not advanced enough yet to make a determination on whether the process is simply chemical or if there is more to it.

    Thermodynamics and body chemistry... okay... then what sparked the reactions? What is the catalyst that creates life as we define it today?

    So only heat is released... and we know you don't believe in ghosts :D so, according to definition even though you may hate them other people love them... you could be termed a naturalist. Atheist... Agnostic... anyways *shrugs*

    What causes that polarization?
     
  17. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Well, we have both learned something today!:D
    http://www.gotquestions.org/soul-spirit.html

    What is the difference between the spirit and the soul? The word "spirit," refers only to the immaterial facet of man. Mankind has a spirit, but we are not a spirit. However, in Scripture, only believers, those who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, are said to be "spiritually alive" (1 Corinthians 2:11; Hebrews 4:12; James 2:26). Unbelievers are "spiritually dead" (Ephesians 2:1-5; Colossians 2:13). In Paul's writing the "spirit" was pivotal to the spiritual life of the believer (1 Corinthians 2:14; 3:1; 15:45; Ephesians 1:3; 5:19; Colossians 1:9; 3:16). The spirit is the element in man which gives him the ability to have an intimate relationship with God. Whenever the word "spirit" is used, it refers to the immaterial part of man including his soul.
    The word "soul" refers not only to the immaterial part of man but the also material part. Unlike man having a "spirit," man is a soul. In its most basic sense the word "soul" means "life." However, the Bible moves beyond "life" and into many areas. One of those areas is to man's eagerness to sin (Luke 12:26). Man is naturally evil and his soul is tainted as a result. The life principle is removed at the time of physical death (Genesis 35:18; Jeremiah 15:2). The "soul" as with the "spirit," is the center of many spiritual and emotional experiences (Job 30:25; Psalm 43:5; Jeremiah 13:17). Whenever the word "soul" is used, it can refer to the whole person, alive or after death.
    The "soul" and the "spirit" are similar in the manner in which they are used in the spiritual life of the believer. They are different in their reference. The "soul" is man's horizontal view with the world. The "spirit" is man's vertical view with God. It is important to understand that both refer to the immaterial part of man, but only the "spirit" refers to the man's walk with God. The "soul" refers to man's walk in the world, both material and immaterial.
    Recommended Resource: In His Image by Brand & Yancey.
     
  18. Opethian

    Opethian Active Member

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    Good lol.

    I don't just accept anything, the evidence must convince me.

    According to me and many other people, because
    1) There is not a single piece of evidence supporting souls.
    2) A lot of phenomena that used to be explained by souls can now be explained by science.
    3) I have never yet in my thinking perceived anything that would lead me to think that I have a soul.

    Is there an experiment that was conducted like this? And if there was, could you show me information about it? If not, then you don't really have an argument.

    There is no "beginning spark of life". Life is just organised dead matter...

    We can't prove supernatural things, because supernatural things are untestable. But we have no reason to believe that the process is more than something chemical.

    Survival.

    Chemical processes of ions moving in and out of the cell through chemical pumps.
     
  19. Nehustan

    Nehustan Well-Known Member

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    Not read the thread....sorry..but thought I'd throw something in that might be of interest. To the ancients there were 'mundane' elements, fire, water, air, and earth. The fifth element was divine in origin being Ruh/Ruach - Spirit. One might say it was from this origin that all came to be. The four mundane elements are then considered to represent....

    Fire - Mundane spirit (think football match)
    Water - Soul
    Air - Intellect
    Earth - Body

    These are considered to be represented in Ezekiel (wheels around the Throne of Jahweh) and The Revelation (winged beasts around the throne of Jahweh), with the fifth element in at least the Christian tradition being the descending dove. Thus the four lettered name (IHVH) is thought to be representative of the elements, one might say 'The Word' through which all things were made, with the spirit being 'Ruach Elohim' which when descended upon Keterim/Adam Kadmon or the 'second Adam' becomes the name Jehehsuah.

    As a subnote 'The Davinci code' was ruined for me when the lead character in the end of the book gets all his symbols mixed up....not very good for a semiotics professor...

    Fire
    [​IMG]
    Water
    [​IMG]
    Air
    [​IMG]
    Earth
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Mike182

    Mike182 Flaming Queer

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    i take a dualist approach, the soul is yoru consciousness, our essence, our appreciation for aesthetics - and i believe that it is only "residing" in your physical form for the time being.


    do animals have souls.... are we animals? i would say yes, so yes, animals, in my oppinion, have souls
     
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