define soul

[bunny1ohio]

What exactly is a soul supposed to be anyway? A spirit that makes you exactly who you are and whose personality moves with them to a higher plane when their body dies? Is it life giving energy with consciousness?... what would that mean for our definition?...

Animals would have souls... as would an insect... but we don't think every living thing has a soul do we? No... why not? What exactly is a soul...

anybody ... everybody... I want everyone's opinion on this one

 

[Bishka]

I actually made a thread on this a few days ago

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32245

 

[bunny1ohio]

I actually made a thread on this a few days ago

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32245

Sorry becky... i haven't been here for a while

 

[Bishka]

Sorry becky... i haven't been here for a while

Tis fine. I understand, just letting you know so that you knew.(if that makes any sense at all)

 

[bunny1ohio]

Tis fine. I understand, just letting you know so that you knew.(if that makes any sense at all)

makes perfect sense :no: *cheeky grin*

 

[Bishka]

makes perfect sense :no: *cheeky grin*

That's good. My english-speaking-right button is sort of broke today.

 

[Katzpur]

What exactly is a soul supposed to be anyway?

I believe a soul to be the entity which exists when a spirit enters into a body.

A spirit that makes you exactly who you are and whose personality moves with them to a higher plane when their body dies?

The words "spirit" and "soul" are often used interchangeably, but I don't believe they are actually synonymns.

Is it life giving energy with consciousness?...

That would be a fairly accurate definition of the word "spirit," in my opinion.

what would that mean for our definition?...

It would mean that you have used the word "soul" when the word "spirit" would be more accurate.

Animals would have souls... as would an insect... but we don't think every living thing has a soul do we?

I sure do.

No... why not? What exactly is a soul...

Well, you've assumed the answer to be "no." Since I believe it to be "yes," I don't know what more I can say.

anybody ... everybody... I want everyone's opinion on this one

You have mine now.

 

[finalfrogo]

Soul: A shard of God, eagerly seeking to fuse with the others so the divine crystal will be completed.

:yoda:

 

[Opethian]

Soul: Psychological illusion to cope with complex centralisation processes of the body.

 

[bunny1ohio]

I believe a soul to be the entity which exists when a spirit enters into a body.

The words "spirit" and "soul" are often used interchangeably, but I don't believe they are actually synonymns.

That would be a fairly accurate definition of the word "spirit," in my opinion.

It would mean that you have used the word "soul" when the word "spirit" would be more accurate.

I sure do.

Well, you've assumed the answer to be "no." Since I believe it to be "yes," I don't know what more I can say.

You have mine now.

The spirit entered me and I fell to me knees to pray... he is soulless creature...

simple sayings... but interchangeable in most instances... so if a spirit is not a soul... what is it? And then what would you use to define the soul that cannot also describe "a spirit"?

 

[ΩRôghênΩ]

Its what allows us the ability to attain divine concioussness and is the key to ultimate light and eternal reality. It is given to humans as a last hope to turn away from the flesh and embrace God.

 

[finalfrogo]

That's one perspective, yes. Care to elaborate on "complex centralization processes'?

 

[bunny1ohio]

Soul: Psychological illusion to cope with complex centralisation processes of the body.

then what do you think animates these bodies we live in? And then again if it is just an illusion... then what would the reality be?... electricity in accidentally charged particles? don't give me definitions, because none of them can be proven one way or another and you state them as fact.... give me what you think.

 

[Katzpur]

The spirit entered me and I fell to me knees to pray... he is soulless creature...

Well, as I already said, they are frequently used interchangeably.

simple sayings... but interchangeable in most instances... so if a spirit is not a soul... what is it? And then what would you use to define the soul that cannot also describe "a spirit"?

You said that a soul is "life giving energy with consciousness," and I stated that I thought that would be a pretty good definition of the word "spirit." To me, when a spirit enters a body (at conception or birth, I couldn't say for sure which), that body becomes a living soul. The spirit is its life force. It is the non-physical element that makes each person unique, his personality, character, feelings, emotions, etc.

 

[bunny1ohio]

Its what allows us the ability to attain divine concioussness and is the key to ultimate light and eternal reality. It is given to humans as a last hope to turn away from the flesh and embrace God.

what is divine consciousness?... did Joan of Arc acheive it?... Ghandi maybe?

and what happens if we don't attain it?... how do you know who has? who define's it? And what do you mean by turn away from the flesh?

 

[bunny1ohio]

Well, as I already said, they are frequently used interchangeably.

You said that a soul is "life giving energy with consciousness," and I stated that I thought that would be a pretty good definition of the word "spirit." To me, when a spirit enters a body (at conception or birth, I couldn't say for sure which), that body becomes a living soul. The spirit is its life force. It is the non-physical element that makes each person unique, his personality, character, feelings, emotions, etc.

I guess what I'm getting at here... is what then is a soul? That sounds exactly the way most people define a soul.... what is the difference? All you've defined for me is the spirit... but how is it different than the soul?

 

[Katzpur]

I guess what I'm getting at here... is what then is a soul? That sounds exactly the way most people define a soul.... what is the difference? All you've defined for me is the spirit... but how is it different than the soul?

I must be really doing something wrong here. I'll try again, but I really don't know what you're looking for. Spirit + Body = Soul. Without a spirit, a body is just some flesh and bones. It is not a soul. When a person dies, the spirit leaves the body, the soul ceases to exist because one of its component parts is missing. That part -- the spirit -- does not die, but continues to exist independently of the body. When each of us is resurrected, our soul rejoins our newly perfected body and we become a living soul again. The difference between what we were during our lives and what we will be in the next life is that we were (i.e. we are now) mortal souls. After the resurrection, we will be immortal souls. The spirit that re-enters our body when we are resurrected will never again leave. Consequently, we will never die again, but live forever.

 

[Opethian]

That's one perspective, yes. Care to elaborate on "complex centralization processes'?

Well, all we are is a body. But, in a body which has to survive by performing all kinds of complex actions, there is a need for a centralisation, to the brain. Our brain creates what we perceive as our "spirit", our "mind", and many people wrongly believe this to be a separate entity of the body, while it is in fact just a result of the body's command and processing centralisation to the brain. The development of our languages has only further added to this confusion, since I can imagine thoughts in most animals are much more abstract and to the point, while in humans, it can often seem like you're having a "dialogue with yourself".

then what do you think animates these bodies we live in? And then again if it is just an illusion... then what would the reality be?... electricity in accidentally charged particles? don't give me definitions, because none of them can be proven one way or another and you state them as fact.... give me what you think.

Well, of course I know nothing on this topic can't be proven yet, and that what I'm stating here is merely a conclusion I've arrived upon from the uncomplete knowledge I have accumulated at this point. We don't know enough about how our body works yet, it's only when we've completely mapped how our brain and the rest of our body works, that we can actually undertake the endeavour of trying to prove the lack of a soul. But here are some of my thoughts. As for something animating the bodies "we live in", that's not really how I see it. "Our bodies" don't need to be animated, they work fine on their own. We don't live in our bodies, we are "our bodies". Everything perceived as spirit, mind, soul etc... by humans is just a result of processes going on in our body and the way our information processing center copes with doing this efficiently.

 

[bunny1ohio]

I must be really doing something wrong here. I'll try again, but I really don't know what you're looking for. Spirit + Body = Soul. Without a spirit, a body is just some flesh and bones. It is not a soul. When a person dies, the spirit leaves the body, the soul ceases to exist because one of its component parts is missing. That part -- the spirit -- does not die, but continues to exist independently of the body. When each of us is resurrected, our soul rejoins our newly perfected body and we become a living soul again. The difference between what we were during our lives and what we will be in the next life is that we were (i.e. we are now) mortal souls. After the resurrection, we will be immortal souls. The spirit that re-enters our body when we are resurrected will never again leave. Consequently, we will never die again, but live forever.

So the body defines the soul? I think most religions would disagree with you here... what you describe as a spirit would be most peoples' definition of a soul... the force that animates the body...

How do you ressurect a decomposed body? Again I think most religions would disagree with this... the body is only a vessel in which to carry the soul until it is returned to it's creator... not to its vessel...

But I think I get what you're shooting for here... you take the immortal soul to be a literal living body (eternal life in it's most literal sense) whereas most religions define the "eternal life" of heaven or hell as the continuation of the soul for eternity (sans body, just spirit)... is that close to what you meant? :camp:

 

[bunny1ohio]

many people wrongly believe this to be a separate entity of the body, while it is in fact just a result of the body's command and processing centralisation to the brain. The development of our languages has only further added to this confusion, since I can imagine thoughts in most animals are much more abstract and to the point, while in humans, it can often seem like you're having a "dialogue with yourself".

That's a good way of putting it, although I think you are still accepting a conclusion that cannot be proven there, but I get what you mean by it.... it's about as close as we can come to describing "higher thought" or "personality"... but it doesn't answer the question of how that personality was created... why it exists and if it is a real entity or not (like I said you can't prove or disprove that one ... not yet anyways )

And if it is not seperate then how do you explain ghosts?... I know I know... they're "not real" it's "just your imagination"... right?...

I would disagree there because I believe that ghosts, spirits, entities... however you want to use the word... are real and I have seen and even had brief interaction with them (possibly time/space fluxuations allowing us to "see" into other existences or dimensions even?) And what about OOB... many people have had out of body experiences... and even the government uses "farseers" to locate objects people or places that the people being used have never seen or heard about... so how can they accurately see and describe them if their consciousness cannot be seperated from the body?

We don't know enough about how our body works yet, it's only when we've completely mapped how our brain and the rest of our body works, that we can actually undertake the endeavour of trying to prove the lack of a soul. But here are some of my thoughts. As for something animating the bodies "we live in", that's not really how I see it. "Our bodies" don't need to be animated, they work fine on their own. We don't live in our bodies, we are "our bodies". Everything perceived as spirit, mind, soul etc... by humans is just a result of processes going on in our body and the way our information processing center copes with doing this efficiently.

They do need to be animated though... "life force" if you will... a body without it is just dead meat and doesn't operate any functions at all...

We do live in our bodies... and we are our bodies... without the living us their is no us... without the body there is only.... what? Without the force that keeps that body alive it is just chemicals formed into meat... the personality is defined by the body maybe... but the force that animates the body is seperate from it... stillborn babies are proof of this... what causes the animation if not energy? We know a living body gives off electricity and a dead body does not... why is that?

Good explanation though... you still haven't answered that one question though..