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Define God

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
So, are you suggesting that the more you learn about God, the less you know about yourself and existence?
Thanks for asking. I am inclined to say that the more one pursues their limited vision of "god" they will, eventually, learn much more about the nature of personal existence and the nature of the self, pretty much eclipsing ordinary ideas about god(s).
How do you define God?
In general terms I try not to define "god". Does the expression non-dual have any meaning for you? That is a good base point to explore but I've gone a rather long way off the beaten track from that base point. It should suffice in giving you an idea of where I am coming from. (Pun intended.) Personally speaking, I no longer have any use for god concepts.

Are you unknowingly accepting the most ridiculous definition (ie tyrannical grandpa in the sky) just so you can more easily refute it?
Far from it. Let's put it this way. There is far more to you than meets the "I"...
 

HeatherAnn

Active Member
What defines "correct?"
Good question!
I'd say correct thought is not easily determined.
It's a mix of what is true and what is good to believe.
It is paradoxically avoiding cognitive distortions, while sometimes embracing some (like jumping to conclusions) when it is beneficial to do so.
Often cognitive distortions are what make people suffer from anxiety or depression, yet they can also be what gives us euphoric, motivating or otherwise positive feelings.
Deep down, I may know "it's all in my mind" whether I'm thinking positively or negatively, yet I also realize that what I choose to focus on and tell myself (my attitude) affects my life - how I interpret things, how I feel, speak, act & even am physiologically (placebo effect). My thoughts are always subjectively biased - it is in my interest to have my thoughts be helpful rather than harmful, ideally based on the most encouraging perspective of the grim reality.

Truth is in perspective and correctness (or goodness) is context-based, and truth is that which causes influence (even if placebo effect).
So, correct thought would be that thought which works for me, rather than against me, considering truth (both objective and subjective).
 

HeatherAnn

Active Member
Thanks for asking. I am inclined to say that the more one pursues their limited vision of "god" they will, eventually, learn much more about the nature of personal existence and the nature of the self, pretty much eclipsing ordinary ideas about god(s).
I can agree with that, generally.
"The kingdom of God is within you." - Jesus said that, but IMO, he got it from Buddhism influence.

In general terms I try not to define "god". Does the expression non-dual have any meaning for you? That is a good base point to explore but I've gone a rather long way off the beaten track from that base point. It should suffice in giving you an idea of where I am coming from. (Pun intended.) Personally speaking, I no longer have any use for god concepts.
Isn't non-dualism essentially yin-yang wholeness of apparent opposites?
I'm curious as to how you'd explain it, though, so please do.
Especially, I've wondered about the strange but relatively common phenomena of "bad" things happening that inspire great "good" that otherwise would never be known.
What do you think about karma - intention or action-based - or both?

I can respect others' desire to not define God, but personally, I see the search for God/GOoD/Truth as the ultimate life quest.

Far from it. Let's put it this way. There is far more to you than meets the "I"...
As Jesus and Buddha taught, the experience of God/spirituality is within each of us.
I AM THAT I AM... I am that consciousness aware of that consciousness within me.
These are old sayings - in the bible, but I think many people haven't realized them because they've been misinterpreted for centuries.
 

Demonslayer

Well-Known Member
Good question!

I'm full of 'em, you just wait. ;)

Deep down, I may know "it's all in my mind" whether I'm thinking positively or negatively, yet I also realize that what I choose to focus on and tell myself (my attitude) affects my life - how I interpret things, how I feel, speak, act & even am physiologically (placebo effect).

100% agree here. Actions and thoughts have far reaching consequences and we can, to some degree, control our attitudes, emotions and other mental and physical attributes by paying attention to the negativity and/or positivity of our thoughts and actions. Furthering this thought to your idea of correct though, the idea would be to avoid the thoughts and actions with personal negative consequences to you...the ones that cause you joy are the 'correct' ones and the ones that cause you angst of some sort are incorrect.

So, correct thought would be that thought which works for me, rather than against me, considering truth (both objective and subjective).

And this last statement says the same thing pretty much, so I'm with you to here. Where I veer off is, what of the serial killer who gets real true joy from skinning his victim or some other such maniacal example? If correct thought is personal and based on what causes personal angst vs. comfort, what about the small percentage of people for whom very obviously "incorrect" actions is what brings them comfort?

I tend to agree with most of your idea, I think maybe I'm just nitpicking the use of the word "correct?"
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
I relate in many ways to your perspective, except I do believe in both a subjective god as well as an objective God (love based on truth).
Maybe another way to phrase it would be:
God is that which I think (or another thinks) is GOoD.
And God is also the ultimate GOoD, whether anybody realizes it or not.

Well and good, but keep in mind that the word "good" is unrelated to the word "god" in terms of etymology. The former is from a PIE word that means "unite", the latter is way more unclear but might be from a PIE word that meant "libation", or "one who offers libation".

Plus, for me, the Gods are beyond good and evil.
 

Ken Ewald

Member
How I define God reveals more about me than about God.
My definition of God is still evolving.
I don't claim to know all there is to know about God - nor do I believe I will understand much in my entire life - compared to all there is to know.
Currently, I define God as love based on truth - and as Paul Tillech defined God, as "one's ultimate concern."
I also define God as ultimate GOoD - which each of us strive for by trial and error - active faith.
Part of that GOoD, I consider to be a higher power - a means of tapping into "the kingdom of God within."
And I realize the common need to spiritually connect by personification of (God) spirituality (Jesus, gods, Saints, Mary, etc.).

How do you define God?
Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
 

HeatherAnn

Active Member
I'm full of 'em, you just wait. ;)
Some days I'm filled with answers and other days - questions.
So I may question your questions. :)

100% agree here. Actions and thoughts have far reaching consequences and we can, to some degree, control our attitudes, emotions and other mental and physical attributes by paying attention to the negativity and/or positivity of our thoughts and actions. Furthering this thought to your idea of correct though, the idea would be to avoid the thoughts and actions with personal negative consequences to you...the ones that cause you joy are the 'correct' ones and the ones that cause you angst of some sort are incorrect.

And this last statement says the same thing pretty much, so I'm with you to here. Where I veer off is, what of the serial killer who gets real true joy from skinning his victim or some other such maniacal example? If correct thought is personal and based on what causes personal angst vs. comfort, what about the small percentage of people for whom very obviously "incorrect" actions is what brings them comfort?

I tend to agree with most of your idea, I think maybe I'm just nitpicking the use of the word "correct?"
No you're not nitpicking, rather you're bringing up an essential element of correct thought - consideration not just of our own well-being, but also that of others.
I think it's Peck who explained that all we do is for kind of selfish reasons - otherwise we'd see no benefit in doing it.
Yet there are basically 2 approaches - stupid selfishness (only concerned with self, ignoring how interconnected we are with others), and smart selfishness (acknowledges and considers the interdependent social world we live in).

Ultimately, the thinking I do is all within me and I am the only one who has any real say in how I think (as an adult not so much as a child). Still, we are social creatures - very much dependent on others. We began life completely dependent on our mothers for life, gradually weening off dependency, but still needing and being influenced by others. Most of my joy, pain, obstacles and maturing has been my thinking about others. Cognitive distortions are often thoughts based on how we think others are thinking... jumping to conclusions, polarized thinking, mislabeling etc.

So, you are absolutely correct in suggesting that correct thoughts involve not just what makes me happy/well, but also what makes others within my sphere of influence, happy, or rather well (correct thoughts may involve unhappiness but necessary letting go of denial, etc).

And again, sin is incorrect thought (the root of intent and action). I'm not orthodox Christian but I do like how Jesus illustrated this when he equated forgiving of sins with healing.
"As a man thinketh in his heart so is he." Moses gave specific commandments - 1/2 about self (where God is experienced) & 1/2 dealing with others. Jesus expanded on it by basically saying the previous law was the lower law - the higher law is not just preventing doing incorrect things but is thinking in more correct terms.
 
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HeatherAnn

Active Member
Well and good, but keep in mind that the word "good" is unrelated to the word "god" in terms of etymology. The former is from a PIE word that means "unite", the latter is way more unclear but might be from a PIE word that meant "libation", or "one who offers libation".

Plus, for me, the Gods are beyond good and evil.
The root meaning of words are as subjective as you or I when interpreting them.
I like relating God with GOoD because to me, God is ultimately the process of striving for good, and the words are similar. It's my way of trying to redefine God in healthier terms, since often how people consider God influences how they consider themselves and others.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
The root meaning of words are as subjective as you or I when interpreting them.

They are root words. But how they were used in the past isn't that subjective at all; it's based on an actual technique.

I like relating God with GOoD because to me, God is ultimately the process of striving for good, and the words are similar. It's my way of trying to redefine God in healthier terms, since often how people consider God influences how they consider themselves and others.

Oh, it's fine to equate the two for yourself. It's just not meaningful to me. That's all.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Although faith could be considered a noun, I'd say it's a verb: "faith without works is dead."
I live by faith... I have faith that I will continue to breath and my body processes will continue to function, and I have faith that when I take a step, it will propel me forward.
I have faith that when I type something, it will be posted so that you could see it and that you might understand my intent.
Sorry, but your examples do not save faith from being anything other than a noun. Here, maybe this will help . . . .


verbs.jpeg



.
 

Syed Muhammad

New Member
Why would you have your own definition of God? Its like something out of your own imagination. You can't just create a God in your mind and give him attributes can you?
 

Syed Muhammad

New Member
Not everyone needs to have things defined for them. Some of us don't even view the socially standard definitions of deity as making that much sense.
Wow, so just lets all create our own God? The only being that can define God is God Himself. And if you define your own God your own way, you may as well be defining the devil and considering him as your God.
 

HeatherAnn

Active Member
Wow, so just lets all create our own God? The only being that can define God is God Himself. And if you define your own God your own way, you may as well be defining the devil and considering him as your God.
Really, if you were being completely honest, you would acknowledge that each person thinks uniquely and therefore defines God slightly uniquely - even in the same religion. "The kingdom (realm/experience) of God is within you." Where else would it be? In a tree - in a temple? No - you FEEL everything within you. You feel God within you. You feel the devil within you. True that there are external influences - but they only influence you if you're open - for good or bad.

It's really nothing new.
Moses realized that God is "I AM THAT I AM."
God is that consciousness within us that is aware of that consciousness.
The more conscious you are of it, the more godly you are.
The less conscious you are (as in blindly believing corrupt but traditional definitions of a tyrannical grandpa in the sky - external rather than internal experience of God) - the less godly you are.

Not only can I define God as I am reasonably and intuitively guided, if I truly worship God (highest love based on truth), then I will never stop searching and learning about God - and redefining God over and over my entire life!
 

Syed Muhammad

New Member
Really, if you were being completely honest, you would acknowledge that each person thinks uniquely and therefore defines God slightly uniquely - even in the same religion. "The kingdom (realm/experience) of God is within you." Where else would it be? In a tree - in a temple? No - you FEEL everything within you. You feel God within you. You feel the devil within you. True that there are external influences - but they only influence you if you're open - for good or bad.

It's really nothing new.
Moses realized that God is "I AM THAT I AM."
God is that consciousness within us that is aware of that consciousness.
The more conscious you are of it, the more godly you are.
The less conscious you are (as in blindly believing corrupt but traditional definitions of a tyrannical grandpa in the sky - external rather than internal experience of God) - the less godly you are.

Not only can I define God as I am reasonably and intuitively guided, if I truly worship God (highest love based on truth), then I will never stop searching and learning about God - and redefining God over and over my entire life!

Anything that you can imagine to be God, would by definition, NOT be God. God transcends human subjectivity.

If you were being completely honest, and you have not actually been inspired by God, then you would love and worship the God (of Moses for example). Moses spoke to God, you might remember his conversation at the tree... He did not come up with a subjective idea of what he thought a God should be. He knew God, he spoke to Him.

"The kingdom of God" is not God. God did not say that God is within you. I would love to learn more about this "God is consciousness" thingy. I only have heard about God consciousness. I understand that you will keep searching for the truth and thats sincerity. I wish you luck.
 

Ponder This

Well-Known Member
How I define God reveals more about me than about God.
My definition of God is still evolving.
I don't claim to know all there is to know about God - nor do I believe I will understand much in my entire life - compared to all there is to know.
Currently, I define God as love based on truth - and as Paul Tillech defined God, as "one's ultimate concern."
I also define God as ultimate GOoD - which each of us strive for by trial and error - active faith.
Part of that GOoD, I consider to be a higher power - a means of tapping into "the kingdom of God within."
And I realize the common need to spiritually connect by personification of (God) spirituality (Jesus, gods, Saints, Mary, etc.).

How do you define God?

I take "God" to mean "the Supreme Being or Power" (in other words, the monotheistic sense). A "god" would simply be any being of great power believed in or worshiped (which is different because such gods are not supreme).

A person could beseech Ares, the God of War, for victory in battle or Poseidon, God of the Sea, for smooth sailing. But while these gods would be beings of great power that could conceivably bestow blessings or curses upon you, none of them are truly Supreme. None of them are "God".

People can imagine who or what they think "God" is, but worshiping a created image or representation is idolatry.

'One Light'

What are "I" and "You"?
Just lattices
In the niches of a lamp
Through which the One Light radiates.

"I" and "You" are the veil
Between heaven and earth;
Lift this veil and you will see
How all sects and religions are one.

Lift this veil and you will ask---
When "I" and "You" do not exist
What is mosque?
What is synagogue?
What is fire temple?

- Mahmud Shabistari, translation by Andrew Harvey and Eryk Hanut - 'Perfume of the Desert'​
 

1AOA1

Active Member
Really, if you were being completely honest, you would acknowledge that each person thinks uniquely and therefore defines God slightly uniquely -
If the definition "a motorized vehicle with four wheels" is given the label "car" through someone, can you define a motorized vehicle with fours wheels in your own way? If something that is not a motorized vehicle with four wheels is called a "car" in Greece, is that a Greek motorized vehicle with four wheels?
 

JesusBeliever

Active Member
How I define God reveals more about me than about God.
My definition of God is still evolving.
I don't claim to know all there is to know about God - nor do I believe I will understand much in my entire life - compared to all there is to know.
Currently, I define God as love based on truth - and as Paul Tillech defined God, as "one's ultimate concern."
I also define God as ultimate GOoD - which each of us strive for by trial and error - active faith.
Part of that GOoD, I consider to be a higher power - a means of tapping into "the kingdom of God within."
And I realize the common need to spiritually connect by personification of (God) spirituality (Jesus, gods, Saints, Mary, etc.).

How do you define God?
Hi HeatherAnn,
I define God as Selfless, Undying Love, Kindness, Compassion and Mercy.
 
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