Yes, many religious scholars are intellegent people. That doesn't give their beliefs any more validity than the beliefs of other people.
When I said that Golden Dawn seemed to follow the Satanic principle of "Indulgence, not abstinence, you said:
Entirely untrue as they taught disipline and hardwork and feeding of the higher self and eradication of the ego the complete oppisite of modern satanists
"Indulgence, not abstinence" means embracing the sensual world (enjoying beauty, sex, and other things that are sometimes either ignored, looked down upon, or outright considered "sinful" by Christian views). You seem to think that indulgence is a negative thing. However, this statement encourages people to understand that "We are spiritual beings having a physical experience." (to quote a bumper sticker) Satanists believe that humans were given bodies, minds, and senses for a reason, and that to deny the sensual world is wrong.
Golden Dawn practiced orgies (again, this is not wrong, in my opinion, as long as everyone involved was willing) and basically did what they wanted, even if Christian bigots said "This is sinful. Repent and be saved."
I am not using the Satanic Principles against them. I am saying that Satanists may have used Golden Dawn as a basis for their own views. I don't know why you are so against this idea. Every religion borrows from others; NONE are truly original. If Golden Dawn didn't get some of their ideas from Christian views of Witchcraft (again, I ask you about the rumor that Crowley and Mathers called on demons in one of their mock "battles" against each other, using the Christian names of the demons), then where did they get them from? They were an eclectic group... they drew on ideas from everywhere. Even I, as unknowledgable as I am, can see that.
When I said "2. Vital existence, not spiritual pipe dreams" you wrote:
Not sure what you mean by this statement. Maybe you mean the belief that one should take care of life first and worry about death when it gets here. OR perhaps you should work to work, not for some vain hope of some imaginary after life.
A pipe dream is a vain dream that will never happen, given the harsh reality of life. This Satanic statement urges Satanists to see through pretty spiritual illusions to the harsh reality of life. It talks about how many people have blinded themselves with spiritual "Truths".
I am willing to bet the Golden Dawn's members didn't blind themselves to the way things really were. As you say, they were intellegent people, and they didn't have a dogmatic system of belief designed to eradicate personal responsibility and offer comfort when understanding is really what is needed.
A far cry away from the selfish love in which your trying to protray them to have.
You think "Kindness to those deserving of it, not love wasted on ingrates" is a negative thing? You do know that these are the Satanic statements. You seem to have a certain prejudice against Satanists. These are not negative statements, but a practical ones. Love those who deserve love. Don't show kindness and baseless forgiveness to people who really deserve to be told off. Turning the other cheek only works up to a certain point.
This makes one take responsibilty for ones own actions and it's much more mature than the whole you did this so I'm going to do this BS.
Ah, yes, because if you ignore another person's behavior and turn the other cheek, they will just immediatly stop hurting you. I personally think that if someone comes up and slaps me, they should be slapped back, or they will never understand why it hurts another person. If I just ignore them and turn the other cheek, I am inviting them to slap me again, and do more violence to get a reaction.
When I said "Responsibility to the responsible, instead of concern for psychic vampires" you said
Not sure what you mean in this statement.
You seem to think these are MY statements. They are not. I am quoting the Nine Satanic statements put out by the Church of Satan several years ago.
The idea that "man is just another animal" encourages us to be humble. Christians think that after God himself, we are the supreme beings of the universe, and that everything else is below us. This is an arrogant view, and discourages responsibility. When we understand that we are animals, just like all other creatures on the planet, we can feel a connection to them and understand that our intellegence makes us responsible for protecting them, instead of believing that they are just there for us to abuse, eat, and lord over.
You wrote in response to that quote
Absolutely ludicrous and did I mention completely untrue. The GD did not see us as being just another animal. We are concidered to be much much more with the ability to become even more evolved. However it is our responsiblity to take care of our wildlife.
Humbleness, not arrogance, was what the Statement was about. You are preaching that we are better than everything else on the planet. We are a biological organisms that were just lucky enough to be blessed with intellegence.
When I said "Major emphasis is placed on the power and authority of the individual Satanist, rather than on a god or goddess" you wrote:
2.Firstly there should be no "satanist" in that sentence and it should be replaced by ceremonial magician. But other than that this statement is for the most part true.
I am talking about the Satanist and asking you to compare the Golden Dawn to the Satanists. These statements of Satanic Belief come from the statements Satanists made about their own beliefs... I am not going to cut out the word Satanist because they were talking about themselves. I am asking YOU to look at their statement and see if the Golden Dawn would have agreed. Agreeing that the GD believes the same thing does not mean ceremonial magicians are Satanists. It means that they believe something similar to Satanists. You understand?
Look at these statements again, with the understanding of what they mean, and then tell me that the GD did not agree with most of them. I am not saying that the Golden Dawn ARE Satanists. I am saying that they believed similar things that modern Satanists do, and that modern Satanism may have evolved from Golden Dawn philosophy.
You are looking at everything from a "she is insulting my religion point of view". I am pointing out positive beliefs that I think both religions share. You don't want to see any validity in what I say because you want the Golden Dawn to remain completely original in your mind, instead of seeing the connection it has with other religions. I challenge you to TRY to compare it to Wicca and Satanism, and see what beliefs the three might share, and what images of witchcraft the three religions may have adopted from Christianity (take a look at "The History of Witchcraft" and pay close attention to the pre-Golden Dawn Christian views of what Witchcraft was and witches did, and then tell me if there is still no similarity).
If you do this and still don't see any validity to anything I say, then fine, I will admit that you are completely right and I am completely wrong. But don't tell me that I am uneducated and biased until you understand true Satanism a little better and can look at it from a positive angle instead of the negative one you seem to have right now.
