Debunking the Antichrist Myth

[Bennettresearch]

Debunking the Antichrist Myth​

I’ve kept this as short as possible because I know I don’t like wading through lengthy posts myself. This thread is open to all to comment, discuss, etc.

Special Note: To follow the different beasts in this chapter I have numbered them in parenthesis. There are four of them. Also, you will notice that I do not interpret the numerology literally. A lot of numerological references in prophecies are red herrings. They do not point to specific numbers so as to not make the interpretation easy for the non initiated.

Rev 13:1 And he stood on the sand of the seashore. And I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names.

{ The beast (1) coming out of the sea. The word sea is used in biblical terms as representing the populace or peoples of the earth. The term horn in biblical terms is likened to a Bull’s horns. It is broadly used in the OT as one’s power to force another to do his will, or the power to conquer. One example is Psalms (22:21). We use the word head much the same as it is used biblically to represent a leader, from that of a household to what ever degree after that. There is a differentiation between leaders and rulers here. A diadem is a badge of royalty or a crown. Blasphemy is irreverence to God. The beast then has a hierarchy of leaders (heads) and rulers (horns) who are empowered as royalty. They are also blasphemous to God. This can be expanded to a degree to indicate the crowned ruler acting as a God, which was a very common practice in ancient times. **

Message: The Bishops of Rome are taking on the characteristics of Rome, beast (1) in asserting their authority over the Christian Religion. Revelation is predicting the future alliance of the Bishops to Rome.

Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority.

{ The beast (1) is described as having the features of other beasts. This is quite simply saying that the beast has incorporated other beasts into its appearance and they are combined into one beast. This is no simple beast. The Dragon, or Leviathan, or Satan gives this beast its power, throne, and authority. **

Message: Christianity will be adulterated by incorporating other religions and practices into it. The authority to do so will be backed by the power of Rome, which incorporated other cultures, mainly Greek, into it’s own culture. Hellenization was a main complaint from the Prophets.

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast;

{ One of the Heads, or a leader, performs a sign of healing. This causes this head to gain a following because people are amazed at this act. The word beast here does not refer to beast (1). As this head is later referred to as the first beast, it is now being referred to as a beast (2) and will no longer be referred to as a head. This is the first indication of the interchangeability of the term beast and how it can cause confusion when identifying the different beasts. The word beast is simply a substitute for a person so as not to name names. **

Message: A leader who is a Roman citizen will perform a great sign as being healed from a mortal wound. As this prophecy proceeds we will see that this is Paul who was healed after being blinded by his vision on the road to Damascus. This would become the basis for the following that Paul would receive in later years.

Rev 13:4 and they worshiped the dragon, because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?"

{ People are worshipping the Dragon who gave authority to the opening beast (1) of whom the beast (2) is a head. They worshiped the beast (2) saying who can compete with or fight this beast (2) which is backed by so much power? **

Message: In spite of the surety of those who hold Paul in high authority, there is no scriptural evidence that Paul and the Apostle John were friends or held the same views about the doctrine of Jesus. Paul’s overwhelming promotional abilities were too much for the Apostles to handle. No one could counter Paul’s perspective on the doctrine of the church and his influence on the Bishops of Rome is indisputable.

Rev 13:5 And there was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies; and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him.

{ This beast(2), the head, was arrogant. This beast was not speaking the word of God. This beast had authority for a time. The number given here is not a literal number. **

Message: There is no indication yet about which aspect of Paul’s preaching John takes issue with. It does say that Paul’s preaching was becoming the word and John doesn’t consider it to be coming from God. John doesn’t consider Paul as representing Jesus.

 

[Bennettresearch]

Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven.

{ Once more, this beast (2) is not speaking the word of God or representing God. In speaking of those who dwell in heaven, it is a reference to Jesus and His true
followers. **

Message: A continuation of the objection to the discrepancy of what Paul was preaching versus what Jesus preached. There is a very serious doctrinal issue here that the prophecy is indicating.

Rev 13:7 And it was given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them; and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.

{ Saints can be defined here as anyone who has kept the word of God. There is a line being drawn here as to just who was speaking the word of God and who was not. John is telling us that the true followers of Jesus were driven out and replaced with those who claimed authority over the Christian Church. Being empowered by the opening beast (1), meant that he had authority within its realm, which is referred to as having control over the whole world of that time and into the future. **

Message: One has to place themselves within this time and realize what it meant for John to see the status that Paul had attained while having the memory of Paul being a persecutor and murderer of Christians. The Bishops of Rome were establishing the central authority over the Church and they were followers of Paul’s letters.

(A) Rev 13:8 And all who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.

(B) Rev 13:8 And all who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain from the foundation of the world.

{ Everyone who follows the beast (2) will not be named in the Book of Life of the Lamb. This is differentiated from God’s book of life as described in Exodus (32:32-33) and Psalms (69:28). And so, the affairs of the earth are being kept track of by the Lamb who was violently killed, or one could say murdered, from the foundation of the world, not the foundation of heaven. This Bible has a different sequence in this verse than the KJV. The KJV places "from the foundation of the world" at the end of this verse which I think clarifies its meaning better. Of course the word Lamb represents an innocent victim. The translation of the word slain is consistent in different Bibles. **

Message: Here is our first statement about doctrinal issues. It clearly says here that Jesus was murdered and it was not ordained by God. Jesus was an innocent victim of the establishment, the alliance between the Pharisees and Pilate. Like a lamb led to slaughter. This also tells us where John takes issue with Paul. Because of Paul, the spurious prophecy of Isaiah: Chapter 53, was used to rationalize the crucifixion as God giving His Son as a Human Sacrifice to cleanse us of our sins. It is not hard to see why John would object to this. Human sacrifice, or even animal sacrifice is something that Jesus was adamantly opposed to. It is not ordained by God.

Rev 13:9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear.

{ Self explanatory. **

Rev 13:10 If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.

{ Like and kind retribution for leading others into captivity of the beast (1) or killing saints or innocent people. Those killed being saints is implied by the perseverance of the saints. **

Message: The prophecy here is going beyond the persecution of Christians by Romans. It is indicating that the established Christian Church would kill those who opposed it. A very accurate prediction of future events. Once more, the Saints are the true followers of Jesus keeping the word of God. This is a clear indictment of the future of the Christian Church and its eventual seat in Rome.

Rev 13:11 And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon.

{ This beast (3) is empowered (two horns) as if to be the Lamb, or as an imitator of the Lamb in Verse 8. This beast spoke as a dragon however. This beast represents himself like the Lamb but he actually represents the Dragon. **

Message: This prophecy foresees the establishment of the Head Bishop of the Church. Later, the Pope. This Bishop is a subterfuge. Claiming holiness and representing Jesus while truly representing Rome. To stay within the confines of this verse and to not go far afield, we can say that the doctrine of the Church would be adulterated.

 

[Bennettresearch]

Rev 13:12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed.

{ The authority of the first beast (2) is claimed and exercised by this beast (3). This situation is circular. To have the authority of the first beast (2), he causes everyone to worship the first beast (2), whose wound was healed. The description of being in the presence of is not clearly defined. On the surface it seems to say these two beasts are in the company of each other but it also implies the passing on of authority or a claim to inherited authority. The presence can mean that it is the beast (2) who left a legacy for the beast (3) to draw from. **

Message: John is bringing it together to show us the future as to how the establishment will select which books or letters will have authority, and gaining its power from this same authority. By selecting the letters of Paul and establishing him as authority the Bishop in turn claims this same authority as the representative of God and Jesus.

Rev 13:13 And he performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men.

{ This same beast (3) then gives a sign of his own that would be well known to everyone. Fire coming down from heaven is not meant to be interpreted literally. It is a metaphor to say that this beast (3) would perform a great sign that would have great impact as coming from God. **

Message: This verse demonstrates how prophecy should not be considered a script that is cast in stone to be fulfilled exactly as written. The prediction is that the Head Bishop will perform this great sign but we have no historical example of this happening. It did happen however, just a little differently than predicted. Constantine, who arguably appointed himself as Head Bishop of the Council of Nicea, did perform this sign. His vision is well known and it is just as predicted. He is the key figure in the final alliance of the Church with Rome.

Rev 13:14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life.

{ This sign is considered to be a deception by John, as if to perform a similar or equally remarkable act of the first beast (2) in some way. Another beast (4) who was killed by a wound from a sword is introduced here. The great sign was represented as coming from this beast (4), and he commanded that an image of beast (4) be made. **

Message: Historically, this prophecy accurately predicts that Constantine would perform a great sign and have crosses put on the shields of his soldiers to go into battle. Beast (4) is clearly Jesus. It is Constantine that initiated the cross as representing Christianity. The image of the beast(4) can be more accurately represented as being the crucifix, as differentiated from the Mark of the Beast later. This is a key issue based on Rev 13:8. The early Christians did not worship the cross. And so it came to be but not exactly as predicted in the prophecy. There is a doctrinal statement here about the resurrection. Being written in Greek, the Present and Past tenses are confusing. Based on the representation of John receiving this prophecy from a spiritual Jesus and not in person would indicate that Revelation does not support bodily resurrection but a spiritual one.

Rev 13:15 And there was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast might even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.

{ The beast (3) makes the image of the beast (4) become an idol of worship like those in pagan temples. Anyone who did not worship this idol would be killed. **

Message: Here is the establishment of the crucifix as an idol of worship. It clearly has Pagan roots and is considered to be an abomination. The introduction of idolatry into Christianity is accurately predicted. The same fate would befall people as those who refused to worship the Roman idols, only it would be the Christian Church that would be committing these murders.

Rev 13:16 And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand, or on their forehead,

{ This beast (3) gives everyone a mark either on their right hand or forehead as an identification of worshipers. It is important to note that only the mark is referred to here. **

Message: This is the most broadly misinterpreted verse, along with 13:17, in Revelation. It is the prelude to the Mark of the Beast. Where interpreters have missed is that the mark is to represent Beast (4) and not Beast (3). Therefore, the mark is to represent Jesus and not beast (3). This is an accurate prediction as it has been a practice of the Church to mark the cross on worshiper’s foreheads.

Rev 13:17 and he provides that no one should be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.

{ No one could have a life without this identification which would be a mark, name, or number of the beast (4). This Bible does not differentiate the mark from the number or name as the KJV does. I think this is a relevant point here. Since the act of beast (3) is to cause worship of the beast (2) and an image of the beast (4), it follows that the mark, number, or name would be of the beast (4). As this beast (3) is empowering himself by causing the worship of the other beasts, this mark, name, or number would not be of him. The differentiation of the mark from the name and number is implied by two different references. The prediction is saying that there would be one of three marks given to worshipers. **

Message: Christian worshipers would have some kind of identification given to them. Without it they would become outcasts or worse. As there has been no historical act of tattooing or branding, this prophecy predicts the symbolic wearing of a cross to identify oneself as being a Christian. Their key to being able to have a life within society. Therefore, the beast (3) would cause all Christians to wear the Mark of the Beast (4), the Cross.

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.

[*Note: the footnote in this bible says that some manuscripts read; 616]

{ A calculation of the number of the beast (4), who is a man, is urged. This verse is the number referred to previously which is not the mark, name, or number of beast (3), who is empowered by causing the worship of the other two beasts. This is definitely the number of Beast (4). **

Message: This is the one time that I will consider a numerological reference. The number 6 in numerology represents man. The message in this verse also states that this is the number of a man. And so, by keeping track of the different beasts we know that this is Jesus whose number is 666 or 616 possibly. It is also saying that Jesus was a man and not God, a very important doctrinal statement.

Summary: According to the Myth, Jesus must be the Antichrist. Of course this is not true and the prophecy has only been misinterpreted by those who were convinced that they new the truth. The number 666 is actually not an evil number. It is the number of Jesus, who was a man. As to whether this was written by the Apostle John, it could have existed in it’s original form for some time before it appeared in its present form. There is much evidence that parts of the Book of Revelation were the additions of those editing it. This Chapter however is genuine.

 

[Bennettresearch]

Rev 13:14{ This sign is considered to be a deception by John, as if to perform a similar or equally remarkable act of the first beast (2) in some way. Another beast (4) who was killed by a wound from a sword is introduced here. The great sign was represented as coming from this beast (3), and he commanded that an image of beast (4) be made. **

This was a typing blunder for those of you who may have wondered about it and this is how it should read with beast (3) performing the sign and making an image of beast (4)

 

[crystalonyx]

Maybe we should also look at debunking some of the Christ myths.

 

[Bishadi]

why stop there

Writings of Eusebius - The Church History of Eusebius

Advanced Information
Translated by Rev. Arthur Cushman McGiffert, Ph.D.
Under the editorial supervision of Philip Schaff, D.D., LL.D., Professor of Church History in the Union Theological Semimary, New York, and Henry Wace, D.D., Principal of King's College, London
Published in 1890 by Philip Schaff, New York: Christian Literature Publishing Co





Chapter XVIII.--The Apostle John and the Apocalypse.
1. It is said that in this persecution the apostle and evangelist John, who was still alive, was condemned to dwell on the island of Patmos in consequence of his testimony to the divine word. [713] 2. Iren�us, in the fifth book of his work Against Heresies, where he discusses the number of the name of Antichrist which is given in the so-called Apocalypse of John, [714] speaks as follows concerning him: [715] 3. "If it were necessary for his name to be proclaimed openly at the present time, it would have been declared by him who saw the revelation. For it was seen not long ago, but almost in our own generation, at the end of the reign of Domitian." 4. To such a degree, indeed, did the teaching of our faith flourish at that time that even those writers who were far from our religion did not hesitate to mention in their histories the persecution and the martyrdoms which took place during it. [716] 5. And they, indeed, accurately indicated the time. For they recorded that in the fifteenth year of Domitian [717] Flavia Domitilla, daughter of a sister of Flavius Clement, who at that time was one of the consuls of Rome, [718] was exiled with many others to the island of Pontia in consequence of testimony borne to Christ.

the number is of a birth; the 'time'..... the 6th month June of the 1966

the moon child......

or in the East; the year of the 'horse' ............. maybe even a horseman....

with his buddies; the red, the yellow, the white and even black

the four colors of mankind.........

as for the 7 headed beast........... well capitalism is where the collective minds combine with their acceptance to the system (social security numbers) as no income is earned least paying homage to the machine....

then within the beast (the land of), a little horn steps up and by choice, opens up a can of kick (behinds) in which the children will have the knowledge to continue, while the beast goes ahead and destroys itself..... 'in a blaze of fire'...

so go get some popcorn and watch the fireworks....

let 'him who hath understanding'.......... finish the works for our future; the children....

Do most realize why the christian sects do not like the so called Anti Christ?

because the religions will be over, and the deception created and maintained by the religious right, will be JUDGED, by the people........

and in the old prophecies, even from oracle Sibyl .... they each share a demise of the orders of faith by the hand of the people

 

[Azakel]

Maybe we should also look at debunking some of the Christ myths.

Is there really any need to come into someones thread and be rude like this?

 

[Charity]

Maybe we should also look at debunking some of the Christ myths.

Excellent idea, why not start your own thread on debunking?

 

[Mister Emu]

Message: The Bishops of Rome

I stopped reading here, when I realized it was going to be another "Rome is the Beast" thread...

 

[Reverend Rick]

​

I’ve kept this as short as possible because I know I don’t like wading through lengthy posts myself.

 

[Bishadi]

I stopped reading here, when I realized it was going to be another "Rome is the Beast" thread...

but to recognize the majority on the globe are all 'anti christ'

in the sense that Jesus was christ

then never will 'anti christ' ever be debunked

as the truth lives forever

 

[Bennettresearch]

Maybe we should also look at debunking some of the Christ myths.

I actually quite agree with you. Revelation is a major objection to the Judaizing of Jesus to fit within a predefined framework.

Craig

 

[Bennettresearch]

but to recognize the majority on the globe are all 'anti christ'

in the sense that Jesus was christ

then never will 'anti christ' ever be debunked

as the truth lives forever

I think that what you are saying is too vague for me to comment upon. I have all of Schaff's work and he is great except for the fact that he is so pro Paul as to be in total denial.

Craig

 

[Bennettresearch]

Is there really any need to come into someones thread and be rude like this?

Thank You for being an open debater but I didn't consider it rude. I am interested in your views on this matter.

Craig

 

[Bennettresearch]

I stopped reading here, when I realized it was going to be another "Rome is the Beast" thread...

Hi Mr Emu, long time no see. You got your feathers ruffled when I posted 3 years ago about the Seven Seals too. You are going to have to face your denial and realize that what happened during the first century wasn't really in line with what Jesus wanted His Church to be.

Craig

 

[Bennettresearch]

Hey everybody, thank you for commenting let's get into it some more. I have worked on this subject for ten years and I am interested in everyone's reaction to it. I was going to redo this post as there was an objection to the lack of citations or sources. If I can get some challengers it will allow me to fill in the blanks in this area and address each and every point or objection.

Craig

 

[Bishadi]

Hey everybody, thank you for commenting let's get into it some more. I have worked on this subject for ten years and I am interested in everyone's reaction to it. I was going to redo this post as there was an objection to the lack of citations or sources. If I can get some challengers it will allow me to fill in the blanks in this area and address each and every point or objection.

Craig

Craig,

i will play with you...

the beast is the unity under the guise of business.

such that most all apply to the comprehension of profit and under the guise of corporate heads, then to inflict an atrocity is not of an individual but the collective of many heads.

That beast is not a person but the entity called capitalism

and the reason none can fight the monster is it is protected by the weapons of MD

within that beast (a single horn) the birth (from the west) grows and learns; an brings the truth unbiased, uncontrollable as well the knowledge to combine all mankind and bring the Peace. hence the Prince of Peace.....

what theology has done is mixed and confused the reality of the prophecies....

let's go over them seals and see if a new light can reveal what is true

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Hey everybody, thank you for commenting let's get into it some more. I have worked on this subject for ten years and I am interested in everyone's reaction to it. I was going to redo this post as there was an objection to the lack of citations or sources. If I can get some challengers it will allow me to fill in the blanks in this area and address each and every point or objection.

Craig

Ten years!

Are you planning on writing a book on this or something?

Would you mind sharing with us your method of "research"? I mean to say, why has it taken you so long... what have you actually been doing to fill up a span of ten years studying so small a subject?

 

[Bennettresearch]

Craig,

i will play with you...

the beast is the unity under the guise of business.

such that most all apply to the comprehension of profit and under the guise of corporate heads, then to inflict an atrocity is not of an individual but the collective of many heads.

That beast is not a person but the entity called capitalism

and the reason none can fight the monster is it is protected by the weapons of MD

within that beast (a single horn) the birth (from the west) grows and learns; an brings the truth unbiased, uncontrollable as well the knowledge to combine all mankind and bring the Peace. hence the Prince of Peace.....

what theology has done is mixed and confused the reality of the prophecies....

let's go over them seals and see if a new light can reveal what is true

OK, sorry to say that yours is the kind of myth making that I am debunking. A secular approach has been totally unrewarding as it does not produce any viable interpretation of the prophecy. Does everyone think that John was writing about the events of the 21st century or his own? As far as any "calculations" go, these are red herrings for the non initiated. 1966 does not add up to 666. It adds up to 4. To get a date that adds up to 666 you have to go to June 6 1950. 1950 adds up to 6. This is a waste of time however. John neither intended us to calculate a name or a number.

Also, the identity of this beast is clearly Jesus. Therefore, all of the calculations and interpretations of the "beast" have been futile. We have been programmed to think of Jesus as the antichrist.

Craig

 

[Bennettresearch]

Ten years!

Are you planning on writing a book on this or something?

Would you mind sharing with us your method of "research"? I mean to say, why has it taken you so long... what have you actually been doing to fill up a span of ten years studying so small a subject?

Hi,

Well I don't spend 8 hours a day every day working on it. There have also been times when I had to let me brain work on a particlular passage. The proof is in the testing and mentally neutralizing myself to understand just what John is saying. The first objection that anyone can make against interpretation is that it is idiosyncratic. This is something that has always been a factor from the beginning.

It didn't take me ten years to figure out Revelation and yes I am writing a book. One can't exactly submit to a publisher about this subject easily. They tend to write you off as just another nut.

I decided to share this portion of my interpretation because I truly believe it is refined enough for presentation. Something I can stand behind and say, this is it.

Craig