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Featured "Debunking" other people belief in different religious teachings.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Conscious thoughts, May 4, 2021.

  1. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    Are religious people supposed to go around "debunking" other peoples belief just because we believe differently than they do?

    Are we doing the right action or speech when we tell others, your religion or faith is false or wrong, because i can not accept what you believe in? Did we truly check our own belief or faith in what we claim to believe our self? Do we truly understand the teaching enough to discredit others ?
    Did we do enough our self to be the "right" owner of the TRUTH ?

    I know for my self and what i believe in that my understanding of the teaching is in a constant change because i learn something new or understand something new mostly every day. That to me tells me that i will not be fully "corect" in my belief for a long long time. Only when i have reached the end of the wisdom and can no longer learn more will i be able to say now i "know" but still then, Can i be sure i actually know and understand it all?
     
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  2. JustGeorge

    JustGeorge Well-Known Member
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    When I see 'religious' people do this, it usually comes from a desire to proselytize. They usually feel that in their proselytizing, they are holding the right beliefs or actions. It never occurs to them that they could be incorrect, or not understanding the entire 'truth'.

    They hope by debunking a person's faith, that person will have to see things their way, and come to their faith.
     
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  3. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    Your answer is similar to what i have seen too, but i think there can be many answers to my OP :) looking forward to see what people will answer
     
  4. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    If a Christian has a wrong view of scripture, for example if they say the Bible tells us God has feathers and that means that we also need to grow feathers, it may be appropriate to point out their error if that is possible.
    If a person in another religion entirely believes something that sound unreasonable or illogical, on a religious discussion/debate forum it should be OK to discuss this.
    If a person's belief in only naturalistic then discussing this and pointing out problems in that approach sounds fine in a religious discussion forum.
    Hopefully all this is helpful in people seeing possible errors in their belief and getting them closer to a true belief.
    It works both ways and I also have defend what I believe.
    When I came on the forums years ago I remember someone saying it was a dangerous place for people with faith and I remember replying that it does not matter, if I find out the truth is elsewhere it cannot be a bad thing.
    But of course this was bravado to an extent and I know people place a lot of importance in what they believe and base their whole life around and a bit of insight and discretion helps when speaking with others so as hopefully to not be too unkind in our attacks if that is what we do.
    But we all put our beliefs on the line in a place like this to an extent and most people seem to have strong beliefs and pretty thick skins,,,,,,,,,,,,,or seen have to develop them.
    Interestingly enough, if I attack the beliefs of others and even if what I say is accurate (imo) the other person in many instances, just learns how to defend their beliefs from accurate attacks. In a way it can be counter productive.
    Some people listen and change and others just grow more stubborn in their beliefs.
     
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  5. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    I like the way you see it from different point of views in your reply here :) To me that is not an biased way of answering :) Thank you for taking the time to answer so well written
     
  6. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    I hope this helps...

    How many religions professing Christianity, have taught / are still teaching Hellfire? Do you think that that teaching, that God burns people forever, draws their members closer to God...or would it make them fear God. It might even push them out of that religion!

    I’ve known several people that quit religion altogether, because of that one doctrine!

    How do you think God feels about that?
    If someone said that about you...that you burn your children...how would you feel?

    The Bible talks about using it to overturn “strongly entrenched things,” things that are untruths that take people away from Him. 2 Corinthians 10:4-5.




    The truth is...for those who try to do what’s right & just, everything that is in Scripture about Jehovah, when understood accurately, draws you to Him, not pushes you away.
     
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  7. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    @Conscious thoughts , this is what I’m saying.... if I can help someone who has alienated himself from Jehovah God because of false doctrines....and they realize that God isn’t as many portray Him.... maybe they will want to develop a relationship w/ their Father. Get to know Him. John 17:3

    I’ve helped a few myself. That’s a great feeling!
     
    #7 Hockeycowboy, May 5, 2021
    Last edited: May 6, 2021
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  8. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    In Islam I do fear Allah, not because Allah is evil or bad to me, But because i understand that if i do not do my very best to understand and also follow his teaching, i could end up in the fire my self. That does not pull me away from the teaching, it actually give me a very good reason to become a better person than i am today (i still do many wrong decissions every day)

    I am not going to answer what i "think" Allah think or feel, because i have no idea about that.

    If someone said to me that i was burning my children (if i had kids) i would ask why the say so if they do not know it to be so, except for what the scripture say. do they understand it outside of the text?

    i think that if a believer from a religious faith was to correct someone from a different religious teaching in according to his own religon, it would be wrong, if we are to correct someone, we have to use their teaching/scripture to ask them questions on their terms, not our own.

    So for example, i can not use sufi teaching to "correct" a Buddhist or a Hindu. Nor can i correct a Christian with use of Sufi teaching. I would have to use their teaching to ask the questions about their understanding of their own religious faith and teaching.
     
  9. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    I do undertand what you say you would do :) And it is your way, as a sufi it is not the way i chose to do it. But we do see the teachings differently , and that is a given since we do follow different teachings
     
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  10. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    I agree.

    Another reason:
    This world is crappy, filled w/ confusion and anger. There are many who see no hope. What the Bible teaches about the future of mankind though, is bright!

    (But I’m getting off the topic, ain’t I? Giving people hope, has little to do with debating someone’s beliefs.)

    Take care.
     
  11. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    Honestly i do think your questions is valid also within this OP, so to me you are not yet off topic.

    In my understanding, all the religious teachings that speak of hope and a better life, speak of it as if we follow it as inteded by the scriptures :) It means for those who look at a scripure from outside of any belief. will maybe disagree or not be able to see the "better life or hope" that the teaching gives those who follow them.

    Then there is those who are in a religious setting/faith that start to doubt or their ego tells them the scripture must be wrong because they do not feel the pleasure of getting detatched to their physical beloning or their wants and likes. So they leave because it feels as a demand of them to follow the teaching instead of them feeling freedom by following, it becomes a struggle.

    So this topic in OP is not only a one sided issue to me :)
    Every person has their understanding and often it will be different than others, so maybe each person would benefit from becomming more open to different ways of thinking?
     
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  12. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    You are such a kind person!

    As JW’s, we have weekly training helping us to talk with others about God’s Kingdom.
    And we do not start by arguing doctrine! (Except on here lol. Honestly, though, we shouldn’t at any time. The problem with a Forum, is that it is not private between two parties. Others can read the dialogue. Now if we’re at a door, and the householder starts berating us and telling lies, we’ll just walk away. [We obviously won’t change their mind at that time.] But here, others can read those lies, and we feel obligated to refute them, so that those who may be reading the dialogue, won’t be adversely affected. So round & round it goes.)

    But the truth about the Kingdom is marvelous! For most Witnesses, it’s probably our favorite topic, the blessings that Christ’s rule over Earth will bring!

    So we try not to engage in arguements.....we much prefer speaking with mild tempered ones when we can find them. And give them something positive to think about.
     
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  13. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    I do agree with you that a mild tempered way of discussion (not debate) is a good way to share wisdom across the different religious beliefs
     
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  14. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus said to fear Him who is able to destoy both body and soul in Gehenna. (Matt 10:28)
    A healthy fear of God is a good thing and anihilationism also is a good way to create that fear.
     
  15. Pete in Panama

    Pete in Panama Active Member

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    --but that doesn't explain the need to attack and destroy other people's beliefs. When I run into someone who sees things differently I'm curious as to what they're seeing that I may have overlooked. What are you seeing that I'm missing here?
     
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  16. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Where the bible is concerned I agree with what you say here .//Are we doing the right action or speech when we tell others, your religion or faith is false or wrong, because i can not accept what you believe in?//
    The bible tells us to speak the truth in love . Thats the balance. I don't profess to exercise this perfectly everytime .
    I don't know any religion that teaches assurance and a confident expectation. Or any religion that teaches certainty . If you look at the accounts of the apostles in the bible what should strike you is their certainty through preaching the Gospel . There not preaching a ' maybe 'or a well if you do this and that follow these steps , do these rituals and practice this wisdom , you might make it , wanna join? " No they saw people getting saved and lives transformed . People like Paul going from persecuting Christians to getting saved and being the Apostle to the gentiles .
    But heres the point Jesus taught about hell more than anyone in the bible. Most religions are fairly flexible / Liberal on who or who won't make heaven some say as long as your doing good and following religion you should be ok . Catholicism is a little bit like this . They believe that people from other faiths should make it to if they are devote ect . They will go so far as to Say that Allah is really God so essentially Muslims will be ok because they are following God . Islam is kinda deterministic so really its all " as the Lord wills " or 'inshallah' , if the Lord wills , kinda apathetic approach Other religions don't have a hell so it's all good in the end
    ..Christianity is not like this . There is a hell that Jesus taught. There is only One way ,which Jesus taught and he taught its by believing on him for forgiveness of sins . There is no other option according to Jesus . So you tell me , how could a Christian not tell others that what they believe is wrong ? That would be hatred in the extreme to not warn others .
     
  17. Shakeel

    Shakeel Active Member

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    We again, huh? The we that supposes everyone is as uncertain and ignorant of their faith as you.

    Yes, I truly checked my belief and faith in what I say I believe.

    Did you truly read what happens to disbelievers in the hereafter?

    Surat al-Haj, 19-22 "These are two adversaries who have disputed over their Lord. But those who disbelieved will have cut out for them garments of fire. Poured upon their heads will be scalding water.
    : By which is melted that within their bellies and [their] skins.
    And for [striking] them are maces of iron."

    What kind of a person doesn't care? A psychopath, someone who doesn't have certain faith and those who disbelieve. You already said you're not certain of your faith.

    Surat Al-Baqara, 167 "Those who followed will say, "If only we had another turn [at worldly life] so we could disassociate ourselves from them as they have disassociated themselves from us." Thus will Allah show them their deeds as regrets upon them. And they are never to emerge from the Fire."
     
  18. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    All you would need to say, if you disagree with others belief is, i understand you believe so or so, but because i belong to X religion i see it different than you.
     
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  19. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    I have said i have a lot more to understand and learn, i dont not hold all answers within sufism.
     
  20. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    Debunking is essential. It's no contest. In fact, it's a mindful duty to let people know whenever anything is nonsense as it applies.

    It's not an issue of belief nor the person either, it's an issue if pointing out the facts as they stand in face of a belief, and letting that person decide what to do with that information.
     
  21. Shakeel

    Shakeel Active Member

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    Which only almost relates to my comment, as usual.
     
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