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Featured Debate over Pentecost and the Holy Ghost anyone?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Riders, Apr 7, 2021.

  1. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    It's been a long time since I have debated much about my old church but since I am an ex Pentecostal does anyone have any interest in debating the gifts of the Holy Ghost, who the Holy Ghost is, what the day of Pentecost was for, speaking in tongues?
     
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  2. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    Why do they say holy ghost and not holy spirit?

    Ghost sounds more like I'll see casper or ghostbusters.
     
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  3. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    I will share what I have known.

    The event "day of pentacost" was a sign given to the church that the end of the 6th dispensation had come, and the 7th dispensation had begun. The sound they heard was the sound of Angels leaving this earth, and the 7th dispensational angels entering. This is the same thing that Jacob was shown, referred to by most as "Jacobs ladder", where he saw Angels ascending and descending.. This is the air route they called "River Euphrates" - which is the only entrance into and exit out of this earth. The Apostles badly misinterpreted this event.

    The Most Holy Spirit of GOD, is the very GOD HIMSELF. And HIS Most Holy Spirit is not the kind that can be poured. The kind of Spirit that can be poured is methylated spirits. The GOD who is the Most Holy Spirit, is not air, is not shared or in pieces to live in any human. That is a delusional message.

    The gifts of the holy spirit, is referring to the pre-natal talents and abilities of the person before the GOD programmed them into the soul, and sent them into the womb to pick up a physical body during the 6th and into the 7th month of pregnancy because Man was made on the 6th into the 7th day of creation. No one receives special gifts just be believing that you have received the Most Holy Spirit in you - which doesn't happen.

    Where saul paul wrote: To some he gave apostles, to some prophets, to some evangelists, and so on, was revealing that the GOD who gives children, had been sending Prophets as children to parents to be born in this earth, and Apostles, and evangelists and so on... For GOD is the giver of children. Jeremiah 1:5 Isaiah 9:6

    The Temple for the holy spirit is the persons body, which houses them. The holy spirit is a child of the kingdom. Man is a Spirit being, not his body. His body is the garment he wears to give him access into this earth. Euphrates is the air route for Angels, the womb is the door for mankind...

    Being born again is not by confession, nor belief, nor faith which they wrote faith is given to them by the GOD. But by transfiguration either from resurrection, or in life without dying at all as Enoch and Elijah did. No one resurrected that did not transfigure (quickened by the spirit) is born again. And i say this knowing that the GOD resurrected Lazarus and Lazarus was not transfigured, but died again later. This truth missing from the doctrines of the churches, has made the church to believe that Heaven is a ghost world, and you go to be with the LORD from death. A horrible and WRONG message about thejourney of the dead. And Jesus His Pre-Eminence, the all knowing GOD, the all merciful GOD, showed usy by revealing the journey of the dead in the allegory of Lazarus and the rich man. Therefore, no mortal is born again.

    Speaking in tongues is revealing that the church is in her infancy state; they babble just as children do. As new born babies that cannot form any words together, but speak in baby language, this is what they do when they speak in tongues. A proof they have no idea of spiritual things, nor the GOD they claim to worship. They can only take in milk, if at all, and cannot chew meat. That is what the tower of babel was pointing to, and every man spoke in his own language. It was revealing that tower they built was founded on confusion. Then you see what was revealed next is "babylon"....

    And a small proof is that they claim they speak in a language that the devil cannot understand, yet they claim angels can. And then they also claim that the devil is a fallen angel. Confusion thy name is....

    Now its clear to see what it means: By the rivers of babylon, where we sat down, there we wept as we remember Zion. They had the audacity to call Jeremiah a weeping Prophet. But this was actually talking about all the children of the kingdom that remained in Sodomy churches, that drank the messages of false preachers, the messages of babylon. Meaning they chose not to come out of the bondage of false preachers to hearken to the one GOD sent. And this was revealed in the story of Gideon, who only took with him those that squatted to drink the water, and not those who knelt. Those kneeling, were pointing to those that bowed their heads to the image of gold that nebuchadnezzar set up, those squatted pointed to those that are in the similitudes of the Spirit. The ones who knelt sat by the rivers of babylon. Those who squatted were those in Zion.
     
    #3 Yahcubs777, Apr 7, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
  4. The Hammer

    The Hammer White Wolf - kvite ulfh
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    What is speaking in tongues? How is it used in worship?

    What does this have to do with the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
     
  5. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    What I prefer to do is help you get the answers for yourself Riders.
    What is holy spirit?
    And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever, the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither sees it nor knows it. You know it, because it remains with you and is in you. (John 14:16, 17)

    [Jesus] ordered them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but keep waiting for what the Father has promised, about which you heard from me; or John, indeed, baptized with water, but you will be baptized with holy spirit not many days after this.” (Acts 1:4, 5)

    Therefore, because he was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised holy spirit from the Father, he has poured out what you see and hear. (Acts 2:33)

    Now while the day of the Festival of Pentecost was in progress, they were all together at the same place. Suddenly there was a noise from heaven, just like that of a rushing, stiff breeze, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. And tongues as if of fire became visible to them and were distributed, and one came to rest on each one of them, and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak in different languages, just as the spirit enabled them to speak. (Acts 2:1-4)

    The holy spirit comes from the father.
    Jesus describes it as the finger of God.
    (Luke 11:20) . . .But if it is by means of God’s finger that I expel the demons, the Kingdom of God has really overtaken you.
    (Matthew 12:28) . . .But if it is by means of God’s spirit that I expel the demons, the Kingdom of God has really overtaken you.

    It dwells in persons after they receive it.
    It is described as being poured out, and persons are baptized in it.

    What is the holy spirit?
    First, What is it not? Based on what the scriptures reveal, It is not a person, or entity.
    What is it? It is spirit from the living God - his active force, which he uses to inspire the thought, invigorate with power, both physically and otherwise, accomplish all his mighty works.
    It is what allows God to do everything he does, anywhere he wants, without having to move from his position.

    It enable the followers of Christ who waited in Jerusalem, as instructed by Jesus, to speak different languages.
    So when this sound occurred, a crowd gathered and was bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. Indeed, they were utterly amazed and said: “See here, all these who are speaking are Gal·i·leʹans, are they not? How is it, then, that each one of us is hearing his own native language? Parʹthi·ans, Medes, and Eʹlam·ites, the inhabitants of Mes·o·po·taʹmi·a, Ju·deʹa and Cap·pa·doʹci·a, Ponʹtus and the province of Asia, Phrygʹi·a and Pam·phylʹi·a, Egypt and the regions of Libʹy·a near Cy·reʹne, sojourners from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Creʹtans, and Arabians—we hear them speaking in our languages about the magnificent things of God.” Yes, they were all astonished and perplexed, saying to one another: “What does this mean?” (Acts 2:6-12)

    This served as a sign that God was using the Christian congregation at that time, to carry on in the Messiah absence.
    (Joel 2:28, 29) 28 After that I will pour out my spirit on every sort of flesh, And your sons and your daughters will prophesy, Your old men will dream dreams, And your young men will see visions. 29And even on my male slaves and female slaves I will pour out my spirit in those days.

    What does it seem like to you Riders?
     
    #5 nPeace, Apr 7, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
  6. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    Ghost is referring to spirit being in the soul. Spirit is the person.
     
  7. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand what you're trying to debate.
     
  8. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    OK, what's the debate?
    I'm not a Pentecostal but believe that the Holy Spirit still gives gifts to the Church.
     
  9. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    No. I know it's a gimmick and niche and if you ask me, speaking in tongues gets associated now with the con of prosperity gospel , fake healing, greed, sex, lies, and videotape. Followed by its masses of hyper emotional people fanatically throwing money at their celebrity religious superstars.
     
  10. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    Yes. But why that word?

    It sounds like casper and ghostbusters not christianity and god
     
  11. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    Because of the state the person is in, which is different to the state of the person not in a soul.
    Also the term ghost came before any movie called "casper".
     
  12. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    Why not spirit?

    Regardless the origin of ghost, it's still used in movies, shoes, ghost finders, etc.

    Why ghost and not spirit?
     
  13. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    Because of the spirit being in the soul...

    It really takes alot to explain to understand this fully.

    Let me ask you a question. I know you are non-believer...

    If you assumed for discussion sake, that a person goes somewhere after death, how do you think the person will look? Will they look as they did in the earth outside of the physical body?

    Used in movies or not, there is where it came from. It came from religion. Mocking religion with movies is hilarious to me considering that is where they got their info from.
     
  14. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    A: I would say that the change reflects the evolution of the words. Both Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit were used to refer to the Third Person of the Trinity well before the 20th century, although the former was the most common in biblical and prayer texts.
    Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit | EWTN
     
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  15. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    I personally believe that each person is energy (for lack of better words), and that our spirit or soul (another lack of better words) exists in things we've owned, places we've been, and things we've owned while alive. So, in that sense, we don't "die" but, to answer your question, we wouldn't look like anything. No. They wouldn't look as if they did on earth. It's kind of like say in prayer, meditation, or say if you lost a loved one (for sake of analogy) and you feel your loved ones presence with you. While that's a part of the grief process, I'd also add it's not just in your head. As long as you remember your family member, his or her energy or presence (or spirit, perhaps) is with you.

    I assumed that's what people mean by when they say jesus is with them. My friend even says she felt his love and he actually whispering to her. So, in that respect I understand but not insofar as a stranger doing so.

    The non-believer part is I don't believe deities exist (Yemaya/if seen as a separate deity, Zues, Jehovah, things of that nature)

    But let me ask, how is a spirit in a soul? They're both immaterial, so it's not like water in a cup or air in a balloon.

    No. I wasn't mocking. I literally and honestly do not know what a spirit is to christians and why they call it holy ghost and not holy spirit.

    Ghost literally does sound like from the movies the way I know the term ghost. Spirit I understand more via my perspective above, but ghost is very detached when I think of it in a spiritual perspective.
     
  16. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    Thank you. Interesting. I've always used spirit as breathe or spark or something similar (without knowing christian definition of it). I wonder if protestants have a different perspective given some protestants gear away from Greek and Roman liturgy and Church understandings assumed to be paganism.
     
  17. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    Here's a good link @pcarl posted.
    Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit | EWTN
    What's your opinion on this?
     
  18. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    Thankyou for the replies.
     
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  19. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    I don't disagree. What i do know is that term "holy ghost" is an ignorant term because they think they are referring to the GOD. A Ghost is a person who has detatched from their physical body, which is actually when death occurs. What i mean is that its not until the person ( Spirit Being) has detatched from the physical body that the person has died. That is why a person can be revived. But its not that the person waqs revived from the dead; they didn't actually die because they remained in their physical body.

    They referred to GOD as the Holy Ghost, which is ignorant. For GOD cannot die. Rather, the correct term is not even Holy Spirit but the Most Holy Spirit. And that is pointing to the GOD who is not programmed in the soul, as HE is the one that programs the children of the kingdom into the soul. What i mean is that being in the soul is not just that the person is inside it, rather, that the person is programmed into it like software being programmed into hardware. And the soul is made of crystalised water, that is celestial not terrestrial.

    GOD has HIS physical body, but you don't talk about HIM being in the soul. HIS body has no beginning. HIS body is not something that was created. And HE has always had the ability to proceed from HIMSELF, body from body, Spirit from Spirit, as GOD the Son. And then also to proceed from HIMSELF as the Most Holy Spirit. So saying "Holy Ghost" is speaking of a child of the kingdom that has died. For they have become a ghost (Spirit Being programmed in the soul) and are in a sub-conscious state. With the GOD is not so.

    In short, the Spirit is not a ghost. The Spirit, which is the real person, has definite shape and anatomy. The Spirit has Spirit body. The Soul is the Spirit body hugger. And the body is what we were baptised into. We in the earth were baptised of water (Born of a woman), and must be reborn of the Spirit (transfigured) to enter into heaven. That is salvation, and it happens without the person ever becoming a ghost.
     
  20. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    I just think the Holy Spirit is the spirit of God.
     
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