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Featured Debate on hell

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Frank Goad, Jun 20, 2020.

  1. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe that is is a fallacy. Many false beliefs are held in common, and even more so when the church is teaching them.

    I believe I have ancestors in a local cemetery. They are not in a fiery place.
     
  2. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe that hell is a place of fire. I believe that the fire is a metaphor for someone being alone for all eternity, separated from God.
     
  3. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Why do you believe you saw them? The Bible says not to communicate with the dead. The only spiritual being we are supposed to mingle with is God.
     
  4. FineLinen

    FineLinen Well-Known Member

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    “This much is certain, that we have no theological right to set any sort of limits to the loving-kindness of God which has appeared in Jesus Christ. Our theological duty is to see and understand it as being still greater than we had seen before.” -Karl Barth

    [​IMG]
     
    #84 FineLinen, Mar 1, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
  5. eldritchsleep

    eldritchsleep Member

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    I believe that hell is a sadistic tool used to black mail people into believing in the Christian god. Judaism doesn't really have a fiery hell like Christianity (so any translation quoting the Hebrew Bible in reference to Hell can be ignored as the Hebrew Sheol just means Grave).
    Christianity depends on hell existing because otherwise, what was the point of Jesus dying? What did he save humanity from? Simply not existing? That isn't very terrifying. Eternal torture in hell? That is scary and therefore makes his salvation all the more required.
    It is evil. No god could be all loving and also create a place of eternal torture. Besides, no crime could be large enough to deserve eternal torture as all crimes are finite. It is not a just or equal punishment. Trying to compare hell to a parent punishing their child or a court sentencing a person to death is a false equivalence and severely down plays the severity of any philosophy proposing eternal torture as a punishment for any crime or sin.

    God creates hell to punish people who he created knowing they would go there? If god is all powerful, he could figure out any alternative system than hell. No loving parent or even court of law would sentence their children or inmates to anything near touching this, let alone an omni-benevolent being. That's my opinion on hell.
     
  6. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    2 Corinthians 5:19 doesn't support universalism.

    God reconciled the world unto himself, it's up to the world if they want to be reconciled to God. God made a way for every single person to come to know him. God didn't just die for our sins so that we could be forgiven of our sins, but so that we could come before God and have a relationship with God.
     
  7. FineLinen

    FineLinen Well-Known Member

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    There is no mighta, coulda, shoulda my friend. To actually contemplate for a nano second our Father's glorious plan "up to the world"....augh!

    I believe:

    I believe in the restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouths of the prophets since the world began. -Acts 3:21-

    I believe that the good tidings of great joy will be to all people. -Luke 2:10

    I believe that believers in Christ Jesus are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor the will of man, but of God. -John 1:13-

    I believe

    I believe that God appointed Jesus Christ heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe. -Hebr. 1:2-

    I believe that no man can come to Christ unless the Father who sent Him draws him. -John 6:44

    I believe God gave Jesus authority over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as God gave him. -John 17:2-

    I believe

    I believe the Father has given all things into Jesus hands. -John 13:3-

    I believe


    I believe that Jesus Christ was the true light which gives light to every man who come into the world. -John 1:9

    I believe that just as the result of one trespass was condemnation to all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness is justification for all men. -Romans 5:18

    I believe one mans sin brought condemnation for all mankind. -Romans 5: 19-

    I believe one mans righteousness brings right relationship with God, and new life for everyone. -Romans 5:19-

    I believe one mans sin made the whole of mankind sinners. I also believe the righteousness of one Man makes the whole of mankind righteous.

    I Believe


    I believe that Jesus is able to subdue all things to himself. -Phil. 3:21-

    I believe that Jesus came that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are in earth in Him. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His own will. -Eph. 1:10,11-

    I believe the Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering towards us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. -2 Peter 3:9-

    I believe God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christs ambassadors as though God was making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christs behalf: be reconciled to God. -2 Cor. 5:19, 20-

    I believe that all nations shall be blessed. -Gal. 3:8-

    I believe that the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world. -John 6:33-

    I believe that Jesus commanded us to be like himself: Love your enemies, bless those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. -Matt. 5:44,45

    I believe Jesus when he said: And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw [Greek=draw, drag, impel] all mankind unto myself.

    I believe that creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but by reason of Him who subjected it in hope, because creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. -Romans 8:20,21-

    Are our broadest hopes broad enough? Shall there be a nook or abyss, in all the universe of God, finally un lightened by the Cross? Shall there be a sin, or sorrow, or pain unhealed? Is the very universe, is creation in all its extent, a field wide enough for the Son of God?`
     
    #87 FineLinen, Mar 11, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2021
  8. FineLinen

    FineLinen Well-Known Member

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  9. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    God chose everyone but not everyone chose God.

    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

    In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. John 1:4-9

    And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Matthew 24:4-14

    Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. Titus 3:5

    Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Matthew 7:7-8

    One of them, an expert in the law, tested Him with a question: Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus declared, “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind Matthew 22:35-37
     
  10. FineLinen

    FineLinen Well-Known Member

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    Sky: The Master declares "You did NOT choose Me..."

    I do wish you well on your journey into Him.

     
  11. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    I believe that people have their whole life, from when they are born to their last breath, to come to Christ. God doesn't choose us-we choose him. God gave everyone a fair chance.
     
  12. FineLinen

    FineLinen Well-Known Member

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    Superior Plan A =

    "You did not choose Me..."

    Skywalker Alternate plan b =

    "We choose him..."
     
  13. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    God didn't reject people. Because of God's creation, people will have no excuse on judgement day for why they didn't find out who it was that designed this universe.

    For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: (Romans 1:20).
     
  14. FineLinen

    FineLinen Well-Known Member

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    Dear Lad: This will surely be a shock to you, but the God of glory is the Source, Guide & Goal of ta panta. He loses nothing!

    "What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath prepared for destruction." -Romans 9:22

    Katartivzw = Fitted/ prepared =

    To render or to fit.

    To make sound or complete.

    To mend what has been broken or rent.

    To repair what has been broken or rent.

    To put in order.

    To arrange. To adjust.

    To fit or frame for ones self.

    To strengthen, to perfect, to complete.

    To make one what he aught to be.

    Dr. Marvin Vincent =

    Literally adjusted or mended.
     
  15. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Romans 9:15 doesn't support Calvinism.

    God gives mercy to those who accept his mercy, and he doesn't give mercy to those who don't accept his mercy. But that choice is up to the person. God doesn't choose us we choose him.
     
  16. FineLinen

    FineLinen Well-Known Member

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    This is a hard & difficult choice!

    Skywalker = "God doesn't choose us, we choose him."

    The Master of reconciliation =

    "You DID NOT chose Me, I chose you."
     
  17. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    God chooses people for different roles and different gifts, but he doesn't choose people for salvation.
     
  18. FineLinen

    FineLinen Well-Known Member

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    Sky: I repeat, God IS the Source, Guide & Goal of ta panta.

    I would be a good exercise for you exploring the scope of the all of this radical all!
     
  19. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    God chose everyone. He died for everyone.
     
  20. FineLinen

    FineLinen Well-Known Member

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    Sky: The entire work has nothing to do with our choosing but is centered in Him, the Source & Goal of the all.

    By these three prepositions Paul ascribes the universe (ta panta) with all the phenomena concerning creation, redemption, providence to God as the....

    Ex= The Source

    Di= The Agent

    Eiv= The Goal

    The Koine, ta pavnte, is the strongest word for all in the Scriptures; it literally means the all.

    ta pavnte/ ta panta, in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the all things, the universe, and, everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming.

    **It is not in the limited sense of nearly all, pavnte minus ta.

    The final preposition [eiv) reveals the ultimate goal of all that is. What has been provided in Christ is a re-turn, a re-storation, a re-newing, a re-demption, a re-concilation, a re-surrection, a re-stitution.

    The prefix "re" means back again, again, anew and all the words with this prefix speak of something that left its place and has now made its circuit and come back to the point of its beginning.

    "In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down; down to the very roots and sea-bed of the nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him." -C.S. Lewis
     
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